Here’s What No One Told Me Before Having My Brows Laminated

brow laminationbrow lamination

If someone had told me in 2012 I'd be having my eyebrows laminated, I would've ignored them and continued *not* doing my uni assignments.

But alas, brow lamination is one of the biggest brow trends of 2020.

The thick, fluffy, bold brow look is about as far as you can get from the over-plucked tadpole brows of the 90s. But what exactly is brow lamination and should you get it done (or attempt your own brow lamination at home)?

Keep scrolling for everything you need to know about brow lamination, including the things no one told me before I had my eyebrows chemically straightened.

What Is Brow Lamination?

Brow lamination is like a lash lift, but for your brows.

Only, rather than using perming and setting solutions to create a lifted curl, they're applied to set your brow hairs upwards into a bushy, fluffy shape.

You can learn more about all things eyebrows in this episode of the Beauty IQ Uncensored podcast below!

Brow Lamination vs Brow Tattooing.

As Kim Evans from Lux Brows and Lashes told the Beauty IQ Uncensored podcast, brow lamination and brow tattooing or microblading are very different.

"Brow lamination is a brow trend, but brow tattooing or feathering is a brow tattooing technique," she said.

"The feathering technique can be done manually with a blade (microblading) or an electronic pen that creates a series of [cuts into the skin]."

Pigment is then rubbed into these very small cuts to give the permanent effect of a powdered brow, or brow hairs, depending on the look you're after.

How Does Brow Lamination Work?

First, the bonds in your brow hairs are broken with a lifting solution applied onto clean eyebrows. This allows the technician to brush and straighten the hairs up into the desired shape using tweezers and a spoolie (a naked mascara wand).

This solution is processed under some glad wrap and how long this takes depends on how thick your brows are to start with.

brow lamination before and afterbrow lamination before and after

Then, a setting solution is applied to reset the bonds in your brow hairs into their new, restructured shape.

This is also processed under glad wrap before the technician will clean the brows and do any final shaping and tinting. This whole process takes around an hour.

Brow Lamination Before and After.

Here are my before and after photos showing my freshly laminated brows.

brow lamination before and afterbrow lamination before and after

OK, now for the things no one tells you about having your brows laminated...

  • The end result can be very straight - my brows looked like I'd straightened them with my hair straightener.

  • Brow lamination will make your brows sit upwards, but it won't fill them in. If you have sparse brows, you'll still need to fill them in using an eyebrow product.

  • Your brow hairs will fall down as you sleep, so you have to brush them up in the morning using a spoolie. But once you have, they won't move.

  • Brow lamination makes your brow hairs feel like straw. It doesn't change the way they look, but it feels... weird.

  • If not done correctly, you may find some of your brow hairs stick out at funny angles like mine are in this lovely photo below.

brow lamination failbrow lamination fail

How Long Does Brow Lamination Last?

How long your brow lamination will last for depends on your hair cycle. Like your eyelashes, your brow hairs have a hair renewal cycle during which old hairs fall out and new hairs come through.

Most people will have a growth cycle of around 30 days, so your brow lamination can last anywhere from three to eight weeks

I had my brows laminated in early November. Through December, the shape continued to hold on its own (after brushing the hairs into place), but by mid-late January, I found I needed a lick of clear brow gel to keep them in shape.

Funnily enough, I actually preferred how they looked about a month or two after having them laminated.

brow lamination before and afterbrow lamination before and after

brow lamination before and afterbrow lamination before and after

Is Brow Lamination Bad for Your Brows?

If done correctly, a brow lamination isn't bad for your eyebrows. Correctly being the operative word.

Evans added, "If you overtreat or overstretch the brows, you will damage your hairs. You will fry them."

The brow lamination process will dry out your brow hairs either way, so it's important to apply an oil to them regularly.

Brow Lamination Review.

When I first had my brows laminated, everyone told me they looked amazing. In hindsight, I know they were lying.

As I have really long brow hairs, I found the lamination gave me a very thick, bold brow that looks incredible on Instagram or in styled editorials, but kinda ridiculous in real life.

Add on a too-dark brow tint for my skin tone and BAM. It was a lot.

That said, I have seen some incredible brow laminations, and it can be really great for people who have shorter brows that just won't stay up, even after using a heavy duty eyebrow hold product.

It's also a time-saver if you're going travelling and don't want to have to do your brows every day. I went to Singapore a month after my brow lamination and it made getting ready each morning super quick and easy (I also had a lash lift, game-changer).

If you're thinking about having a brow lamination or trying at-home brow lamination, test out the look first by using a brow soap and spoolie to push your eyebrow hairs all the way up.

Would I have my brows laminated again? Probably not.

You live and you learn, eh?

Want more beauty road tests? Check out these helpful stories from our Adore Beauty staff below!


Want to learn more? Here's the transcript of our Beauty IQ Uncensored podcast episode on all things brows.


Kim Evans from Lux Brows and Lashes joins us to talk all things brows including tattooing, brow shaping and the latest craze, lamination.

Beauty IQ Uncensored Episode 55 Transcript - 'Tattooing, Laminating & Shaping With A Brow Expert'

 

Hannah Furst:
Welcome everybody to Beauty IQ the podcast.

Joanna Flemming:
I'm your host, Joanna Flemming.

Hannah Furst:
And I am your co-host, Hannah Furst.

Joanna Flemming:
Hello.

Hannah Furst:
Hello. I haven't spoken to Jo in a while, I have a lot to catch you up on, no I have nothing to catch you up on except that Linda has been listening to the podcast and Linda is not a regular podcast listener.

Joanna Flemming:
No, she's not.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, she's been in lockdown. So look, she's had some constructive feedback from me particularly, she said she would like more movie and Netflix recommendations and I'm like, "Mom, it's a beauty podcast." She's like, "You know what? You know, you talk so much about beauty, but what about movie recommendations?" And I was like, "Sure, mom." So I actually had an idea because no one is really allowed to travel, particularly in Victoria, I thought that I would ... Actually, people do ask me on Instagram about my favourite travel movies.

Joanna Flemming:
Okay. I like this.

Hannah Furst:
So I've got a few that I wanted to recommend, but then also, I have one that I watched last night and actually, it was so deep and meaningful to me that I wanted to repeat like the crux of it. So, I've got one that's erotic.

Joanna Flemming:
Okay.

Hannah Furst:
One that's a bit scary.

Joanna Flemming:
I'll let you know if I've seen any of them. Is Castaway on there?

Hannah Furst:
No, that's a bit too depressing, really.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, I love Castaway.

Hannah Furst:
To be honest, I'd rather be stuck on that Island with Wilson than in my house right now, but-

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, honestly.

Hannah Furst:
That's beside the point.

Joanna Flemming:
It's better.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. So first one is Under the Tuscan Sun, which is-

Joanna Flemming:
Yes, I've seen that.

Hannah Furst:
You've seen that? Most people probably seen that. The next one, which won't be any surprises, is The Beach, which is Leonardo DiCaprio in Thailand.

Joanna Flemming:
I think I've only seen parts of The Beach, I don't know that I've seen the whole thing.

Hannah Furst:
That is my dream. I mean, the ending is not my dream, but that's my dream is to leave on in a little community like that.

Joanna Flemming:
Okay.

Hannah Furst:
The next one, some people don't actually know about is Stealing Beauty and it's Liv Tyler in, I think she's in Tuscany.

Joanna Flemming:
Ah, never heard of that.

Hannah Furst:
Pretty sexy, the scene at the end.

Joanna Flemming:
Is that the raunchy one?

Hannah Furst:
No, that's not the raunchy one. Another one is A Bigger Splash. Now I cannot pronounce his name, I'm really sorry. I know I get in a lot of trouble for mispronouncing things in the reviews, but it's called A Bigger Splash and it has Matthias Schoenaerts, I'm sorry if I've pronounced that-

Joanna Flemming:
That sounds right.

Hannah Furst:
He is the biggest spunk alive and I am absolutely obsessed with him. He's my new Colin Farrell, he's the Colin Farrell of 2020.

Joanna Flemming:
All right, I haven't seen those last two that you've recommended, so.

Hannah Furst:
Okay, so another one is Wild, which is the Reese Witherspoon, She hikes the PCT, it's incredible. Now the raunchy one is called Y tu mama tambien, And it's got-

Joanna Flemming:
Sorry?

Hannah Furst:
[inaudible 00:02:52] Hold on, let me just get, hold on.

Speaker 3:
[inaudible 00:02:57] tambien.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, Y tu mama tambien, I got it right, so that one, has a baby Gael Garcia Bernal, who is also really spunky and it's three people on a road trip, so take from that what you will.

Joanna Flemming:
Okay. Got it.

Hannah Furst:
I think you can guess what happens.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
No spoilers.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, no spoilers.

Hannah Furst:
Okay. And then lastly was the movie that I watched last night, which is called A Good Year. Now I was in love with Russell Crowe as a very young teenager, I actually met Russell Crowe.

Joanna Flemming:
You do?

Hannah Furst:
I was in a movie premiere with my parents and he was in the cut off area and I was, I would have been like 10. It was when that movie with Meg Ryan came out and he was having an affair with her.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh yes. Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
And it was a big deal. Anyway, he was there and the people in the VIP area saw, I was just staring at him and they were like, "Do you want to come and meet Russell?" And I was like, " Oh my God."

Joanna Flemming:
What, that's wild.

Hannah Furst:
It was wild and I, from that moment on was like, "I've met my soul mate."

Joanna Flemming:
I bet you did.

Hannah Furst:
Russell if you're listening.

Joanna Flemming:
He's definitely a listener, I reckon he's followed your whole journey.

Hannah Furst:
So, I think that lockdown I'm having quite the existential crisis and something that happens in this movie is, I don't know if this is going to make sense, but he's boss has a Vanguard painting in his office and he's looking at the painting, he goes, "Oh, it's a knockoff because the real ones in my volt." So this rich guy, he owns this beautiful Vanguard painting, except he keeps it in a vault and then he has a replica in his office. And so Russell Crowe says to him, he goes, "So when do you actually see it? Do you make late night trips to the vault to see the painting?" And then the boss goes, "What's your point?" And I think the point is that, and I think this is really relevant to lockdown is it's things or it's like going out to see the world, I guess that's the way that I interpreted it was, I think the painting was of Provence, you either go and see Provence in real life, or you sit behind a desk all day and you look at a replica of it.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
So I just, that really touched me, I did start crying, but that may be many things.

Joanna Flemming:
Maybe just our emotional states

Hannah Furst:
Anyway, Linda, if you're listening, I really hope you've got some good feedback for me now because I've given people some travel movie tips.

Joanna Flemming:
Love that.

Hannah Furst:
Nothing beauty related, I'm not sure how our boss will feel about this, but anyway.

Joanna Flemming:
We got to go rogue sometimes.

Hannah Furst:
We've got to go rouge sometimes.

Joanna Flemming:
But the rest of the episode is beauty related. So on today's episode, we are talking about body hair, which you and I are very excited to talk about, we've got some stories lined up. We're also talking to Kim Evans from Lux Brows and Lashes all about brows and of course our products, we didn't know we needed. Okay, so body hair, Hannah is what we're talking today and I just felt that we needed to discuss this because as women, we are conditioned to think that we need to shave her legs every two days and the vast majority of us-

Hannah Furst:
Can't be it.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. You actually had a hair removal story for me that you wanted to tell, which I think you may have encountered recently.

Hannah Furst:
Look, I've been going through some things lately where I, because I can't get my laser hair removal and I actually to do my whole legs with the IPL machine at home, it's quite time consuming and I'm just really lazy AF at the moment, so I have embraced my leg hair, I've stopped shaving, even though it's growing back from laser hair removal.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, I grew mine out about three months ago.

Hannah Furst:
It's really interesting, that's something that lockdown I think has helped me do is, I don't care, this is me, this is like a, I guess, that's something I have done and I wanted to refer back to that first episode and I think for the people that are new, have we told this story about how the podcast structure came about?

Joanna Flemming:
Oh no.

Hannah Furst:
So basically Jo and I went bowling and we were at an event and we were on our way to go bowling. And I think one of us, I can't remember who said it, but we were like, "What if we opened every episode? And we talked about the anus add on."

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, I think you came up With the idea of the add on and then I was like, "Why don't we do that per every episode?"=

Hannah Furst:
Yeah.

Joanna Flemming:
And then the cringy [inaudible 00:07:34] was born.

Hannah Furst:
We'd had a few drinks and we were at bowling, I don't know if you were still there at this point, but I then after three or four drinks said to my boss, whose a man, by the way, I was like, "Yeah. So by the way, we're going to be talking about Brazilian hair removal in the first episode." And he was like, "Go for it." It's just such a funny thing to think about, about how nervous we were about talking about the anus add on.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
I think about the shit that we talk about now and I'm like, "Anus add on? That's nothing."

Joanna Flemming:
I know, that's nothing.

Hannah Furst:
I have been doing my own, so I feel like these whole stories come full circle now because I've been doing my own anus add on since I got my at home IPL machine and I give myself little electric shocks every time because I find it really hard to like-

Joanna Flemming:
Manoeuvre yourself?

Hannah Furst:
You not meant to use it if you've got hair there, because you got to shave it and I swear, I find it so hard to manoeuvre the razor in that area.

Joanna Flemming:
Do it in front of a mirror.? Are you spreading the cheeks?

Hannah Furst:
No, I sit down in the shower and spread my legs and there we go and I just give it a red hot go.

Joanna Flemming:
What about with the machine?

Hannah Furst:
Oh with the machine? Oh, so that's just shading the area in the shower, so I actually do it on my bed, I don't know if that's good or not. Yeah, I do it go blind, I don't try to use a mirror or anything. It's not, it doesn't give you a shock, but it's just a bit of a-

Joanna Flemming:
Has it been working?

Hannah Furst:
I don't know, I haven't had a look, I haven't looked.

Joanna Flemming:
Fair enough I guess we'll find out.

Hannah Furst:
I'm not sure. Have you ever used an at-home Brazilian wax kit? Because I swear to God.

Joanna Flemming:
No, I've not.

Hannah Furst:
Doing your anus add on with that is something else.

Joanna Flemming:
I don't think I would ever attempt my own Brazilian wax at home.

Hannah Furst:
I reckon I still have wax up there.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes, I will get halfway through and be like, "No, that's just going to stay there now." I'm done.

Hannah Furst:
But the only other story that I had on the body hair is, and this is probably why women feel weed about body hair or the reason that it doesn't feel as normalised is because when I was in Bali, I remember I had a little romance, like Shakara.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
I remember he like felt my legs and he was like, "Oh, spiky." And I was like, " Uhmm" Because I'm hairy I shaved 24 hours before and I had a five o'clock shadow already. Yeah.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, that's the same with me and I always have envied those people that can shave their legs once a week and they stay smooth until the next time they shaved them. But I actually wanted to talk about the first time that I shaved my legs because I had really hairy legs from a very young age, when I say young, I mean seven years old, I was begging my mom-

Hannah Furst:
Wait before your period?

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. Way before. And I was just like, I remember being on holidays in Queensland with my family and I would have been, I think, seven or eight years old and I'd been begging my mom for ages to let me shave my legs or wax my legs and I think she had succumb to letting me wax my legs and Shea was doing it for me at home, but we were on holidays and I noticed that my legs were really hairy and my brothers had pointed it out and they were like, you're making fun of me and I was just like, "No, that's it." I went and grabbed my mom's razor from the shower and I shaved my own legs at eight years old, because I was so tired of it and I was like, "I just need to have smooth legs. And I did it. And my mom was so angry at me for doing it, she was like, "I told you not to do that, now they're going to go back thicker." and I think that's actually a myth that they grow, the hair grows back thicker when you shave.

Hannah Furst:
I think it must just be because it's spikier then it looks thicker.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, I don't know. But I feel like having laser really did thin out the hair on my legs, but it hasn't completely gotten rid of it. But yeah, I just feel like for me to do that at such a young age, I must have been so conditioned-

Hannah Furst:
Yes.

Joanna Flemming:
To not have hair on my legs.

Hannah Furst:
Jo, everything that we do is conditioning-

Joanna Flemming:
When you think about it, it's scary.

Hannah Furst:
I've been thinking a lot about the Disney movies that we used to watch when we were young and there's so much conditioning, I know we're getting really deep here, but I think about these things a lot and I think about if I ever had kids that I would want them not to feel like that they could just make the choices without...

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, well I think as I got older, I went to a primary school that was largely Aussie Caucasian kids, blonde hair, blue eyes, I didn't really see a lot of other girls that had hairy legs and then when I went to high school, I went to an Italian Catholic school and so all my friends were Italian and they all have like, they're all waxing their moustaches, so I was like, "This is great, I feel like, I'm at home here, they get me, they're going through the same thing, they've got body hair."

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, the moustache really upset me at a young age.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
And now I talk about it publicly on this podcast. And guys tell me on dates that they know all about my beard, so look how far I've come, Jo.

Joanna Flemming:
But I think it really is like, it is about having some kind of self-acceptance at some point, but I did actually look up why some people get thicker hair or darker hair than other people and a doctor did say, he's an assistant clinical professor of dermatology in New York and he said, it largely depends on your genes, so there's a variety of normal, some will notice very little body hair that is very light in colour or texture, whereas others may have more body hair and it may be darker and coarser, so it just really does depend on your genes and your background, obviously, so we know that if you're from a European background, you're likely to have darker hair.

Hannah Furst:
That's me.

Joanna Flemming:
But yeah, I definitely got the darker, coarser hair gene, actually, you remember when you was telling us about your rogue hair in the middle of your chest?

Hannah Furst:
Oh yes.

Joanna Flemming:
I've noticed more of those vellus hairs on my chest, but they're dark, but they're fine.

Hannah Furst:
It wasn't a vellus hair, it was a stubbly cheek hair.

Joanna Flemming:
It was what they would call a terminal hair, which is what makes up our eyebrows and eyelashes and yeah.

Hannah Furst:
Sorry, I don't know if I've told this story before and I really just want for people that feel embarrassed, that they may feel like they have rogue nipple hairs or chest hairs or whatever, just it's so normal and my ex-boyfriend I remember stopped me in the street one day and said, "You've got a hair in the middle of your chest." I looked down and it was these like long black coarse hair, a chest hair.

Joanna Flemming:
It's hard to see your own chest.

Hannah Furst:
I was mortified, but the fact that I'm telling the story in front of all these people right now, clearly I don't care anymore. Guys. Your 30s is the best, it's the best you stop caring about this kind of shit I reckon, so you've got something to look forward to.

Joanna Flemming:
Totally. But also I think if you've been in a relationship for a long time, I was growing up, my leg hair for ages, I didn't care that I had hairy legs.

Hannah Furst:
There's some really amazing body positivity, Instagram accounts and I think they've really helped me become more comfortable with my body hair and, but my chin has been growing out recently and I just looked at it and I'm like, " just don't care." I think that when you see women doing that on Instagram, I find it really empowering as well.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, well, I've started sharing that I bleach sideburns and moustache, so

Hannah Furst:
I love that for you Jo.

Joanna Flemming:
Though that is a form of like me trying to disguise the hair, I still think like, I wasn't born with blonde sideburns, so here I am, this is what makes me feel a bit better, so yeah. Anyway, that's body hair from us.

Joanna Flemming:
Our guest for today is Kim Evans joining us from Lux Brows and Lashes to obviously talk all things brows. Welcome to the podcast, Kim.

Kim Evans:
Thank you very much, it's my pleasure to be here.

Joanna Flemming:
Now, brow trends tend to change quite dramatically over the space of just a few years. I remember it used to be the big block brow and now it's fluffy brows, can you explain the impact that brows have on the face and why their shape is so important?

Kim Evans:
Brows trends change and brows fashion like everything, brows fashion. It's not a one stop shop, it's just not a stencil for all, everyone has different shapes and different needs. Most people are quite realistic in what they want, but I'd say just keep work with what you've got, keep it really natural, that's the main thing don't try and create something that is just not achievable and maintainable.

Joanna Flemming:
So brow tattooing has become increasingly popular, I think I see it on Instagram pretty much every day, I find those videos really soothing to watch actually, what are the different kinds of brow tattooing and how far have tattooing techniques come?

Kim Evans:
Tattooing and techniques have come such a long way, really in such a short amount of time. I remember when I trained just over seven years ago, the training then to now is, and even what I produced, it's like, "Oh that is just so embarrassing." And at the time it was the client and myself were also over the moon, but I look back at now and think, "Oh my Lord" So it's really come a long way, we prefer to keep the brows really natural looking. I particularly focus on that with the client because trends change, it is fashion and that's why I say keep it really natural and there's lots of different styles you can have as well.

Joanna Flemming:
And what are those different kinds of brow tattooing styles? I think there's feathering, there's ombre, Maybe, can you explain the difference between each of those?

Kim Evans:
Yeah, this is where a lot of people get confused because they say, ah, I want feathering, but mine, I had feathering done somewhere else and it doesn't look anything like yours, why is that? Feathering is the technique, now that can be done with either a manual microblade or it can be done with an electronic tool that looks like a pen and that's a series of dots that the little needle goes in and out, in and out and that creates a line, but when all those little dots join up those dots then blur as the pigment softens into the skin, it does blur and soften and it becomes more of a powder brow, so microblading is done with a microblade, but it's still called feathering. Then you have the combination brow and that is done with hair strokes at the start and then done with the digital tool, which creates like a powder look, so you'll get soft hair strokes at the very beginning and then the rest will be more solid, sort of like the ombre hair, the different colour here, different colour there, so gradually just gets darker as you go towards the tail. Then you get the powder, powder or ombre, depends what they call it, but that's more of a solid powder look and that's longer lasting too.

Joanna Flemming:
Now with the actual brow tattooing process, my mum actually had her brows done on Lux Brows and Lashes, funnily enough, and hers look great, but can you explain the actual process of having them done, what's involved once you decided to bite the bullet and go through with it?

Kim Evans:
So we offer a 30 minute brow feathering consultation and a lot of people were just like, "Oh no, I just want to get it done." It's like, we want you to come for a consultation because there are a lot of contrary indications that will prevent you from having feathering, the skin is penetrated, but if you're on blood thinners, Disprin aspirin, we don't recommend you have it done. And if you're on any retinol, retinol as soon as we touch the skin, it becomes bright red and we can't actually see what we're doing.

Joanna Flemming:
So you can't use retinol?

Kim Evans:
No and even going forward, if you use retinol in your skincare and it goes on your brows because retinol is a brightening, so it gets rid of your pigmentation, if you've got any little blemishes, it will do the same to the brow pigment and it will turn it pink.

Joanna Flemming:
So what would you do in the case if you want to continue to use actives like retinol, once you've had your brows tattooed? Should you wear Vaseline over them when you're using your actives or you just can't use them moving forward?

Kim Evans:
Look, everyone's going to use them, I use them. I want great skin. I want great brows and it's like, I'm not going to compromise either. So I apply every lotion and potion on my face and then I use just a face halo and just water and just wipe almost like just a thumb's distance away, because obviously if I put a cream on my [inaudible 00:20:17] it's going to radiate, that the centimetre around it, doesn't just stop there, so that's why I just say wipe them just with water, a halo or cotton bud, whatever, just so you're giving a bit of a barrier.

Joanna Flemming:
Fluffy, full looking brows are also really popular at the moment and brow lamination has popped up seemingly out of nowhere, what's involved in brow lamination? And is there any possibility that could damage the brow hairs?

Kim Evans:
Yeah. Brow lamination is like your lash lip serum, like a perm solution, obviously, if you over-treat or over-stretch that hair, you will damage it. So yes, absolutely, of course, if you don't get it done properly, it will damage the brow hair.

Joanna Flemming:
I guess it's kind of the same as a lash lift if you over-process your lashes, they're going to, you're going to experience breakage and that kind of thing, which I imagine is probably the same for the brows.

Kim Evans:
And you fry them.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, exactly. What do you recommend in that instance, if they've damaged their brows or lashes, do you recommend any serums or anything?

Kim Evans:
On people that have had, we've seen severely over-processed lashes, what we do is we ask them to come in, let us have a look at them. We re-apply, but half the time, the solution and then the setting lotion and relax them, so they can at least, we've seen them and they've been so tightly, the lashes, so tightly curled, you couldn't even see them, it's just been like, "Oh my goodness." And the clients being just so upset and crying. I haven't seen it with the brow because mostly as I said, people are pushing the brow hairs all the way up and getting this really like. "Whoa." That fluffy look, it's like, perhaps you might best to start with some brows soap at home and just say that this is what you like.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah try to look out.

Kim Evans:
Yeah and brows soaps are great alternatives for that.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes. We love a brow soap, we were talking to Nikki makeup about brow soap in a previous episode and yeah, we're so into that look. Now with shaping your brows, if you choose to shape your brows, what is your preference? Waxing, threading, plucking? I don't particularly touch mine very much, but I do prefer to pluck mine, what is generally the best way to go?

Kim Evans:
I personally prefer waxing and tweezing. I think threading is more suitable to someone that has thicker, coarser, European brow hair, because it can tend to break off, our generally our brow hair is softer, someone that's got that thick European like Turkish, their hair is thicker and it's perfect for them because the thread will pick that up and pull it out, but for me it would break mine and for you, I can see it would break your brow hair. It doesn't pull it out properly from the root, so I'm not a big fan unless you've got that coarser, thicker brow hair of threading.

Joanna Flemming:
And in terms of waxing, is there any cons to waxing or plucking?

Kim Evans:
Not really. I think what a lot of people, the biggest mistake people do is they'll pick up the tweezers every couple of days and that's the biggest mistake. So we say, come back in between four and eight weeks, depending on your brow cycle, growth cycle and we try and get that cycle, it's like, don't touch them, so we can get that all growing at the same time, because your brow hair grows at all different stages and if we can get this to grow at the same time, then you'll have a nice clean brow for longer.

Joanna Flemming:
I was going to ask actually on the shaping thing, what do you think? Because I used to when I was young and I plucked all my hairs out and took me about 15 years to grow them back, what about people's natural brows, because I now and actually my sisters do this as well, we leave the natural shape of our brows and we just pluck the strays and I just, I find that really suits my face, what are your thoughts on that?

Kim Evans:
I love that look and for that look all I would say is get your hands on brows soap and your brows will look absolutely incredible.

Hannah Furst:
Oh, that's nice.

Joanna Flemming:
Love that. I haven't had my brows done in so long.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, Jo-

Kim Evans:
You and everyone else.

Joanna Flemming:
Purposefully though, prior to iso, haven't had my brows done in a really long time, so I'm on the same bandwagon as Hannah.

Kim Evans:
Yeah and because the brows soap contains coconut and olive oil, it's also, it's a really good hydrating and nourishing agent for the brow hair hence it's a perfect conditioning treatment and it helps grow the brow and keep them in perfect condition. So while it holds the brow hair up perfectly in position all day, and we can just position a few of the little hairs if you've got a little gap, just position them, so you're concealing that little hole.

Joanna Flemming:
I have to do that with one of my eyebrows because I've got a big hole in one. So I've had to brush some hairs through there so that you can't see it.

Kim Evans:
So if you use the brows soap, you'll be able to conceal that.

Hannah Furst:
Great to hear. And so for anyone who would prefer to use their brow pencil powder, Jo, I can't say that it's Pomade?

Joanna Flemming:
Pomade.

Hannah Furst:
Yes Pomade, do you have any tips for choosing the right texture of product and the right shade for your brows?

Kim Evans:
I recommend to people to use a brow powder because you can't really make a mistake with brow powder, but look, it's whatever the person wants. I suggest to my clients use a powder it's softer and it's very easy to apply, again trying to really focus in on that natural Brown look.

Joanna Flemming:
Can you offer any advice for achieving the best shape? You know, if you are using a gel or a pencil or a powder, how should you apply it to get the best results?

Kim Evans:
It's all about knowing, learning, or having someone assist you and teach you how to do that, like using yourself as an example because I've been say your brows put you on the spot, I would extend your arch point out just a little bit further, so I would do a line out to the arch point and just extend that top line just the tiniest little bit. Then what I suggest is you do a powder line on the baseline and you're missing just a little bit there under that baseline.

Joanna Flemming:
Yep.

Kim Evans:
Yep. So that would just slightly fill that in and then on top of the tail, draw with the powder line, just on the top, from the arch point to the tail, then that's, it don't apply more, keep it really soft and natural and just with your brush, brush that through and you'll get a really soft outline. You can make that as soft or as defined as you like, but it's just getting to know that shape and when people come in, we are happy to show them, this is what you need to do. And like people think they've got the worst brows ever, it's like your brows are great and they'll come in thinking they need feathering, you don't need feathering, just do this, apply some of this, show them how to apply the powder, what products to use and you don't need feathering.

Joanna Flemming:
What does make a good candidate for something like feathering? Who would you say, "Yes, that's suitable for you."?

Kim Evans:
For people that perhaps have got a big hole, they have just so over plucked and the follicles are not there, it's never going to grow back. For somebody like that, no amount of product or growth serum is going to have it grow back because the follicle is dead, if the follicles then grass isn't going to grow on a stone, so I would recommend feathering for them. For somebody that sometimes we'll have these busy mums come in and their brows are pretty good and they're like, "Oh, I just want feathering here." It's like, your brows are pretty good and they're like, "But I just, I don't have time and I just want to be able to get up, run out the door." And it's like, I understand that too, being a mom, being busy, it's like, "Yeah, let's just keep it really natural." And we'll feather them, so you just don't have to worry about them, don't touch them, drop the kids at school, go to your gym class. And obviously your alopecia, your trichotillomania, that is some of the most satisfying work, your chemo patients, that's the most satisfying work ever, it's perfect for them. And for them it's life changing.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. Yep, I'm usually not the one that gets the personal consultation, Hannah's usually got a personal question to ask, I guess, and we'll have a personal consultation with you.

Hannah Furst:
I don't touch my brows, so this is one area that I think I'm doing it right.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
I think everyone listening can relate to the fact that, back in her, Pamela Anderson brows were all the rage.

Kim Evans:
Oh yes.

Hannah Furst:
And I think I plucked my, I've got photos Jo, I'll have to send you one, but I plucked my eyebrows to a point where it was one thin line, even though my mum had said she'd done the same and they never grew back, but my luckily grew back and I just think the best thing to do is just let your brows run free, I love the natural brow look, I mean, I think there's certainty, I think I've seen some incredible feathering done though that really changes the whole look of the brow and I think that's incredible, how far that's come.

Joanna Flemming:
We are lucky to live in an age where that's trendy to have full natural brows, whereas previously, our mom's generations didn't, that wasn't the trend at the time, so you kind of do whatever's on trend at the time and we're just lucky that we happen to live in a stage where that's cool. Well, thank you so much for sharing all your brow wisdom with us today Kim, it's been a pleasure to chat to you.

Kim Evans:
You're welcome Joanna. You're welcome Hannah. It was my pleasure.

Joanna Flemming:
PWD KWN.

Hannah Furst:
What is yours today, Jo?

Joanna Flemming:
So my product, I didn't know I needed, I actually had to change today because the product that I was going to put in is not in stock yet, so I'm just going to wait because I feel like everybody's going to run to purchase that as soon as I mentioned it, so that's going to be in next week's episode. But in this week's episode, my PWD KWN is actually a nail art kit because I, as you know, have been getting really into my nail art and last week I did actually, it would have been over a week ago now and it's actually still on my nails, I did little strawberries and I realised-

Hannah Furst:
I love that.

Joanna Flemming:
How important it was to have a really good nail art brush and I had lots of people respond to my stories saying like, "Where did you get this brush from?"

Joanna Flemming:
I actually got it from Trophy Wife Nail Art, she does little nail art essentials kits, I think they're $53 and it comes with all the little utensils and things that you need to do the nail art, like the little dotting tools and the brushes and it comes with a, you know there's plastic nail things that are like round and they've got the plastic nails on them? You know, when you choose your colour at the nail salon and they're all those round things? You get them so that you can practise all of your designs on there. So yeah, that's my product I didn't know I needed because my life changed when I got that little kit and I was like, "this is amazing." I don't know what I did before this. I don't know how I even attempted nail art before this, so yeah, I've got little strawberries on my nails.

Joanna Flemming:
I've got a few recommendations for my next nail art, a few people asked for a dick and balls so I will try that, I wasn't going to rule it out, if that's what the people are requesting, that's what I will do.

Hannah Furst:
Oh my God, please do that.

Joanna Flemming:
I am, I'll do it I will do it.

Hannah Furst:
It's the only dick and balls I'm going to be seeing.

Joanna Flemming:
Exactly, can't remember what it looks like. Anyway, what is your product you didn't know you needed Hannah?

Hannah Furst:
Oh, it's another travel theme.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes, love these travel theme we've got going on today's episode.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, I know. So I, whenever I go to guess where? Thailand, they always burn a lot of incense and I'm having memories of myself doing a cacao ceremony with like, this lady with incense and it going round the room and you've your eyes closed and it's a real vibe and so I have taken to lighting incense in my bedroom, turning all the lights off and dancing.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, that's lovely.

Hannah Furst:
We did an episode on crystals and spirituality and we spoke about ecstatic dance, so I've been doing a bit of that, but these are honestly, you know how some incense, I don't know, sometimes it can make me like, a bit like it's too much.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
This is like beautiful high quality incense, it's stunning. So it's the Mason Balzac La Chapelle Incense, you get 50-

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, you got the Mason Balzac little incense thing.

Hannah Furst:
Holders.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
you already own a holder though, you don't need to buy the whole day, you can just get these incense sticks, but these are the most beautiful incense I think I've ever smelled.

Joanna Flemming:
What do they smell like?

Hannah Furst:
So it's got sandalwood and frankincense.

Joanna Flemming:
I love sandalwood.

Hannah Furst:
I would say it's a very moody, sexy scent, I would say. It's also made in Japan and each stick burns for around 25 minutes. I've already gone through, I reckon half the box in a really short amount of time, I'm burning them every night, they're beautiful. So if you are looking to escape your apartment, I would suggest turning the lights off, lighting some incense and dancing with your eyes closed and pretend you're somewhere.

Joanna Flemming:
Do you put music on or it's silent dancing? That was a genuine question.

Hannah Furst:
No, I put my AirPods and I usually listen to something light really, I've got a bit of an uplifting playlist that I listen to. I would try if you're really, if you're interested in ecstatic dance, is, it may be happening in other States, but No Lights No Lycra is one and then the other one is 5Rhythms, So if you're interested in that kind of dance stuff, I know I've gone a bit off topic here, this is the activity I didn't know I needed. I would try either of those if you're interested in reconnecting with your body, so.

Joanna Flemming:
Nice recommendation, I'm sure other people will appreciate that.

Hannah Furst:
I'm sure they will because they here to listen about beauty and this is what they get instead.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, they got movie recommendations and dance recommendations. It's okay, we like to diversify.

Hannah Furst:
We totally do.

Joanna Flemming:
On last week's episode, we talked about warts and when I did the Instagram stories for our Instagram page, I asked people to share their warts stories, if they've ever encountered a wart and someone responded and I was hysterically laughing, she said, "This is my ex boyfriend Cam."

Hannah Furst:
Yes, he can, of course he can.

Joanna Flemming:
I just thought isn't a wart, a great description for a shitty ex-boyfriend, I just thought-

Hannah Furst:
Totally.

Joanna Flemming:
It was funny, I was chuckling all day.

Hannah Furst:
I love that.

Joanna Flemming:
This is so good. But there was some other really good warts stories, like people cutting their warts out with scissors

Hannah Furst:
No.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes. Someone in our own team sent me a Slack saying "I beat off a wart because I didn't know it was a wart."

Hannah Furst:
What did they think it was? Like a...

Joanna Flemming:
She didn't know. I don't know what she thought, I don't know.

Hannah Furst:
I've done this in the past where I've like... This is so bad, do not do this, I've picked it a mole thinking it was a skin tag.

Joanna Flemming:
Why would you pick it a skin tag even?

Hannah Furst:
I don't know, because I want to get rid of it.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh my God.

Hannah Furst:
Don't do either of those.

Joanna Flemming:
Don't do either of those things, yeah. But yes, ex-boyfriends do count as warts, so.

Hannah Furst:
They do. Thanks everyone for joining us today.

Joanna Flemming:
Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends at helps other people to discover us. And also we really want to know what you thought about these podcasts so if you can leave us a review, that would be much appreciated.