Episode 37: Sharing Skincare With Your Partner

Hannah Furst:
Welcome everybody to Beauty IQ, the podcast.

Joanna Flemming:
I'm your host, Joanna Flemming.

Hannah Furst:
And I am your cohost Hannah Furst.

Hannah Furst:
So, I cooked a new pasta on the weekend.

Joanna Flemming:
I did see that, I had that with my friends on the weekend, the pasta alla vodka.

Hannah Furst:
It was, oh my God, so Jessica Nguyen, who is a food blogger, I have just been, so she's got it an Instagram account. And I literally look at her account every day. And I literally, my mouth salivates, every time I see the pasta.

Joanna Flemming:
Yep. Mine, when I see her dumplings, that happens to me, because her dumplings are so moist.

Hannah Furst:
Oh my God, it was like a little trip to Italy.

Joanna Flemming:
Was yours a little bit spicy?

Hannah Furst:
I actually didn't have any chili flakes. So I didn't put it in. I forgot that. But I definitely put quite a lot of vodka in there. And someone had said to, because I don't keep vodka in my house. And I don't want to buy vodka that I'm only using for cooking. It's like when you do cooking, you get cooking wine and you buy like $5 cooking wine, you've got to spend the money on the vodka, but it was so delicious, it was worth it.

Joanna Flemming:
Could you taste the vodka in it? Because apparently you're meant to burn the vodka off or something.

Hannah Furst:
No, it burns off, but there's something about the flavor that is just... Yeah. So if you go to her Instagram, look that she's got a highlight called pasta alla vodka. It's so good.

Joanna Flemming:
I think it went off because Gigi Hadid cooked it and she posted it on her Instagram.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. I saw Gigi Hadid's as well, she's been cooking heaps.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. You know what I'm really into at the moment. I can't get myself off TikTok.

Hannah Furst:
I haven't gone down that rabbit hole.

Joanna Flemming:
Don't because you will honestly never get the time back. I could spend an hour on there.

Hannah Furst:
I'm trying to better myself,

Joanna Flemming:
I don't think I'm bettering myself.

Hannah Furst:
That's a really good point. I'm trying to like exercise and eat healthier. And that's probably my main, that's been my main hobby.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. I have been exercising every day.

Hannah Furst:
[crosstalk 00:01:56] conversations like Jo.

Joanna Flemming:
I know it really is. Oh, I've been on TikTok. Oh, I did this recipe. We truly a classic conversation.

Hannah Furst:
Classic.

Joanna Flemming:
Anyway, tell us what is on today's episode, Hannah.

Hannah Furst:
So on today's episode, we are talking about how to properly pop a pimple. Then we have James Vivian to join us, to talk about men's skincare, which has been very highly requested. And of course the product we didn't know that we needed.

Hannah Furst:
On to pimples, I actually wanted to ask you a question and I don't know that you'll have the answer to this. Why do I get, every time I have a date, I get a pimple above my lip? I don't know why.

Joanna Flemming:
I really don't know the answer to that.

Hannah Furst:
Do you think spiritually, it's my body telling me that the guy's not right?

Joanna Flemming:
I'm not really sure if that's it, but look, I am very spiritual, so I think sometimes the universe is like trying to direct you in a certain...

Hannah Furst:
And then I always pop it and then I get this big welt above my lip.

Joanna Flemming:
And I think every time I've said, Hannah, don't touch it.

Hannah Furst:
Don't do that but it's a whitehead pimple.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. And you can't leave that because then they're going to be looking at your mouth and... I don't know, that's a tough one.

Joanna Flemming:
I would think that maybe it's probably because you're nervous or like you're a bit stressed about the dates, so maybe your cortisol levels are higher or something. And then that's triggering a breakout. I don't know. But it's weird that it's around your lips and every time.

Hannah Furst:
It's like above my lip and it's one little whitehead.

Joanna Flemming:
Are you taking a lip balm too wide around your mouth? Are they migrating onto above your lip? Because that could be causing a bit of congestion.

Hannah Furst:
Because that's actually I, before date, you can deduce what you will of this, but I definitely slather on the lip balm way more frequently and way more aggressively. Because you know you've got a date and so you don't want your lips to be dry.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. I think that possibly could be contributing because the lip balms that we use, like Lanolips, they're quite occlusive. So they form a barrier over it and so it doesn't really allow that skin to breathe. So I would say that maybe just take a step back with the lip balm. Maybe use a lip serum, like a biology lip serum instead.

Hannah Furst:
Maybe drink water instead.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, exactly.

Hannah Furst:
I exactly I overcompensate with lip balms because I don't drink enough water.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. Same, as we've discussed. Actually someone did message me about...

Hannah Furst:
Same, I've had quite a few.

Joanna Flemming:
These flavored sachets, you can put into water and she said it helps her to drink water because it's flavored, but it's got like electrolytes and stuff in there.

Hannah Furst:
I've got those, you know at the supermarket now they have those really overpriced cold tea infusions.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. That's what I [inaudible 00:04:39].

Joanna Flemming:
I might have a set of them from a PR package.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, so I got them in the PR package and then I went and bought a few packets. They called Infused and they're $6 at Woolworths for a little box, a little container.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, that's pretty pricey.

Hannah Furst:
They're on sale [inaudible 00:04:55] for 12 pack.

Joanna Flemming:
Bargain.

Hannah Furst:
Bargain.

Joanna Flemming:
Get down there.

Joanna Flemming:
Anyway, this is what we do, we go on tangents. Okay. So pimples and popping them, generally this is not something that I recommend. As you know, Hannah, I'm generally, don't touch it, just LED it, use a spot treatment if it can be trusted. Usually as I've said on multiple different channels, I'm usually a bit against spot treatments just because I think people really go overboard with them. And there's the chance of completely impairing the barrier around the blemish and then delaying that healing process quite a lot.

Joanna Flemming:
But we did ask, because we're having James Vivian on this episode, I did ask him as well for his tips from a dermal clinician perspective because he knows, he sees clients in the clinic and obviously people see the pimple in the mirror and they just cannot help themselves.

Joanna Flemming:
So he recommends making sure you've cleaned your hands first. That is very, very important.

Hannah Furst:
That is probably the best advice.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes, to start with. And then applying a warm face washer to the area to soften the skin, which makes sense because usually if I'm ever picking something, which is very rare, I will do it after I've had a shower, so that the skins warmed up. So that also makes sense. And then he suggests prepping the area with a solution to prevent bacteria from spreading on the skin. So something like CosMedix Purity Balance, usually I'd say use cotton tips to avoid breaking the skin around the blemish. But he said, you can go in with your fingers either side of the pimple and then rotate around so that you're not causing trauma to the same exact spot around the pimple. So you like go around it in a circle with your fingers, trying to pop it, but trying not to damage that surrounding skin.

Joanna Flemming:
So trying not to break the skin around the area and then spreading that bacteria, so that's also really important. And then you can apply your spot treatment and hydration over the top. So I think he recommends the Société Blemish Clarifying gel.

Joanna Flemming:
Hannah, do you have a couple of fave spot treatments as well?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. So at the moment I've been using the SkinCeuticals Blemish and Age Defense serum.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. That's a good one.

Hannah Furst:
That's a salicylic acid acne treatment. So that's a good spot treatment, but there's a couple that are really hardcore that I've tried. Is it the Murad one?

Joanna Flemming:
Yes. I remember you trying that one.

Hannah Furst:
So a few girls at the office have the Murad Blemish Control Rapid Relief spot treatment. So that one actually Elle, in the office, had that one in her drawer and it is so strong. It's got 2% salicylic acid.

Hannah Furst:
So according to the website, it reduces blemish size and redness within four hours. And whenever I've had one pop up, I always yell out to Elle and she passes it over and then I...

Joanna Flemming:
A funny story about Elle and that spot treatment.

Hannah Furst:
What happened?

Joanna Flemming:
She took it, I think she was in Europe with her husband and she took it overseas with them and he got a pimple and he just kept putting the spot treatment on it because it wasn't going away and completely burnt his skin off. He just didn't wait. And that's my issue with spot treatments.

Joanna Flemming:
I think if you're going to use them sparingly and use them as they're advised to be used, go for it, but if you're going to go absolutely nuts with it and use it six times a day, you're going to do more damage than you are doing good.

Hannah Furst:
It definitely, this will work to reduce the blemish size really quickly, but you've just got to do a tiny little pinprick dot on the blemish. When I've used that it definitely does sting and tingle a little bit.

Hannah Furst:
Because it's got such a high concentration of salicylic acid. I think 2% is the highest concentration. Is that right?

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. It's pretty high. Yep. And then there's an Aspect. Aspect have Stop Spot as well, I think.

Hannah Furst:
That's a great one too.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, that is a good one as well. I've used that before and then the Dermalogica Overnight Clearing gel as well. But I think it's important to also remember that a pimple on its own is enough to scar the skin, so squeezing it can potentially enlarge that and increase the chance of scarring anyways. So I think just be mindful of that before you go in and attack a pimple, just think about, is it worth having a scar there for potentially months and months or the rest of your life even? Or can you just deal with the pimple for a couple of days? That's always my thought process.

Hannah Furst:
So Jo, remember those two pimples I had on my face. They, I picked at them so, I mean I know better. I know better. Why did I do that? This is the psychology of it. Like why? I know but I still did it.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
Then that post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation has stuck around for weeks.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, it does. It just, you can't get, I've got them at the moment. I had two pimples like at the start of isolation and I've still got two red marks on my chin. I'm hanging out to go and get my Lazy Genesis. But I have been using my LightStim LED on them as well because that helps to reduce inflammation in the skin and speed up healing. So I do recommend a high quality LED device as well.

Hannah Furst:
LightStim, don't they have one specifically for pimples?

Joanna Flemming:
They've got a blue light as well, but I've got the red. So they've got, they've got a blue light for acne and then the red light, it says it's for aging but I think the red light is more an all rounder. If you want to invest in something that you can use ongoing, I would probably get that because it's suitable for acne as well. It doesn't target that acne bacteria that the blue one does, but it targets that inflammation and it helps to speed up the healing process. So I would generally go with the red because I think you'd get more out of it. But if you've got persistent acne that you're trying to treat, then I'd probably go with the blue.

Joanna Flemming:
But again, I think niacinamide is the hero of this story.

Hannah Furst:
Yes, very true.

Joanna Flemming:
I feel if you apply a vitamin B3 and a B5 to the area, you're more likely to be able to reduce that inflammation, take the redness out of it and take, you know when it's big and it's sore. I feel like the niacinamide helps to reduce that.

Hannah Furst:
I could not recommend niacinamide more. I think that when you aggravate the skin with too much acid, it can make it worse. So if I have an event on, because I'm more prone to breakouts, I will just use niacinamide because I know that will reduce the chances of me having crazy breakouts.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. And it can also reduce that post-inflammatory scarring as well. What's your favorite niacinamide? I think everybody probably knows mine.

Hannah Furst:
The Aspect B17.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh yeah. That's right. No, I didn't know that.

Hannah Furst:
Yours is, I'm going to guess, ASAP Super B.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah but I also have been using the Alpha-H one and I really like that.

Hannah Furst:
I feel like we know each other way too well, but we know each others favorite niacinamide.

Joanna Flemming:
We really do. Yeah. But people listening to this are probably guessing that as well. They already, they know us as well.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. I love that one. I love the Berocca smell, it really, it gives me a nostalgia. I don't know why, but it reminds,

Joanna Flemming:
Of a hangover?

Hannah Furst:
It reminds me of hangovers in my early twenties.

Joanna Flemming:
Nice. Good throw back.

Hannah Furst:
Or it probably reminds me of when hangovers went bad, because back then, it was just [inaudible 00:11:50], get up, go for a run. Now it's like three days later and I'm like, no I can't, I can't recover.

Joanna Flemming:
Well, that's our advice for how to pop a pimple. But I think the moral of that story is try and not to, but if you can't resist, that's what you should do.

Hannah Furst:
If you like the sound of any of the products you've heard on today's episode, new Adore customers can get $15 off their first order with orders over $75 only valid for first time customers brand exclusions and terms and conditions apply. Head to adorebeauty.com.au/podcast.

Joanna Flemming:
Welcome to our next guest. Hannah, I don't think we've had a return guest yet, but we're welcoming back James Vivian, because we loved speaking to him last time. So welcome back, James.

James Vivian:
I am honored, thank you so much for having me back again.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. And James, you are, I think, the King of the [inaudible 00:12:46] content at the moment.

Hannah Furst:
A hundred percent.

Joanna Flemming:
So one thing that we keep getting asked about is, listeners of ours wanting to get their partners onto skincare. And so we thought we'd do a whole segment around it because I think this topic can go multiple different ways, but we thought you'd be a great person to talk about this A, because you're a man. So you can talk a little bit about men's skin specifically. And also you're a dermal clinician. So you can talk about it from an expert perspective. So,

James Vivian:
And I have a partner.

Joanna Flemming:
And you have a partner, exactly.

James Vivian:
I do. Sorry to everyone listening at home.

Joanna Flemming:
I know, Hannah and I are single but you're taken unfortunately.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, thanks for rubbing it in James.

James Vivian:
One out of three ain't bad.

Joanna Flemming:
So we wondered if you could explain, is men's skincare actually just a gimmick or can they use the same stuff as women?

James Vivian:
I don't think it's a gimmick because through branding, packaging, smell, texture, these men's specific brands are encouraging men to get stuck into skincare. And I'm encouraging of anything that is helping to get skincare on people's faces. And I think a lot of men, for whatever reason, see barriers within this industry and it might be packaging and branding or that their girlfriend uses it or that their male partner use it for whatever reason. So anything that is helping to get men over the line, I'm all for. But I think when it comes to selecting skincare, rather than selecting something specifically for a gender, I'm always encouraging the people go in search of products that are targeting their specific concerns and concerns are not gender specific.

Joanna Flemming:
Very true.

Hannah Furst:
It's funny that you say that about the packaging. Because my sister's husband, I've been trying to get him, he works outside, so has got a bit of sun damage. I'm always trying to get him onto skin care. Something for the pigmentation and he's just like, no, no, no, I wouldn't use that. I wouldn't use that. And then as soon as I gave him a men's serum, he was like, "Oh, this looks good.". It's something psychological in the fact that he would not use it unless it was for men.

James Vivian:
I guess we have to remember that men are also finicky as well. They have things that appeal to them and they repel against. So I think, packaging, maybe men are a little bit more visually or aesthetically minded than we think.

Hannah Furst:
Even though I think all my serums look very unisex.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. I don't think any of my serums really look specifically female, but I totally get what you mean about the packaging. I think if it's not in like black, simple packaging, they just don't want to borrow it.

James Vivian:
There's a lot of, I think, consideration that goes into formulating men's skincare for those reasons, because it's a small market already. And I think when companies are going into that market, they're on the back foot already because we know that the men's skin care market is not a big market, unfortunately. So when people go in there, they need to really go in and do something that is going to be as widely accepted as possible. And that's when all of those considerations come in.

Hannah Furst:
If I've been dating someone and they're over...

Joanna Flemming:
Dating is a loose term.

James Vivian:
Read between the lines.

Hannah Furst:
So say they are over for a drink or something.

Hannah Furst:
No, don't read between the lines both of you. [crosstalk 00:16:07] You are making this sound worse than it is.

James Vivian:
No we're not.

Hannah Furst:
Something that I'll usually do is put, is always do my skincare before bed and I swear, I've had a couple of guys that like absolutely love getting their skincare put on by someone else.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, that's a nice little touch.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. It is a nice touch and getting it all massaged in and doing layer after layer. And I think I've had very positive feedback on that.

Joanna Flemming:
You should advertise that on your Bumble account.

Hannah Furst:
Should I, will do your skincare routine.

Joanna Flemming:
A hundred percent.

Hannah Furst:
No. How does men's skin differ from women's? Do they have different concerns and can their skin tolerate more?

James Vivian:
So anatomically the skins are really, really different. Men have a much higher concentration of sebaceous glands and the sebaceous glands are bigger. So that's going to be a double edged sword because those sebaceous glands are going to be making more oil. And a positive of that is that those oils contain natural antioxidants, such as vitamin E and coenzyme Q10. And they function as free radical scavengers and also like a very, very low natural UV protectant. But flip side of that is with more oil production comes a greater opportunity to congest and to form comedones, blackheads, pustules, ingrown hairs. So a lot of men, particularly if those men are not caring for their skin properly can have all sorts of issues. Obviously every sebaceous follicle has a hair attached. So there's also going to be issues with, so men need to shave. Then you can have issues with all those sorts of shaving problems that come along with it.

Joanna Flemming:
Do you have any tips for shaving while we're on that topic?

James Vivian:
I do. There's quite a few of them. Like some men can get away with shaving with no product whatsoever, with a blade in the shower, it's amazing and their skin isn't sensitive at all, but a lot of men have a lot of issues.

James Vivian:
It all starts with the quality of the razor. I don't think you need five blades. I think somewhere around three is good. And making sure that they're changed regularly. I think heating the blade is important and washing the face before you start shaving is really important because you soften the hair by over 50%. So there's much less resistance slicing through those hair shafts. Shaving with the direction of the growth is really important too. It's much less resistant and using a product that is a good quality, isn't full of alcohol and nasty ingredients. Much more natural in its formation. There's some good tips and not like going over the area again and again and again, I think just like one sweep with the shaving product. If you need to go again, you need to get a little bit more product or re emulsify it and then go through it again.

Hannah Furst:
So is it quite common for men to get ingrown's on their face? I didn't even know that.

James Vivian:
On their neck.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, ouch.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. I've noticed on the neck before, my brother had a really big one on his neck once and I was just so tempted to attack it but I didn't.

Joanna Flemming:
You would be.

Hannah Furst:
If men have stubble or a beard. Because I know that shaving exfoliates the face or if they're not doing anything else, at least they're exfoliating their face. If they've got a beard, are things like beard oils or those sorts of things helpful to moisturize the skin underneath?

James Vivian:
The thing about skin that has hair growth over it, is that it's actually being very, very protected from the sun. And we know that the sun is one of the leading causes of aging, right?

Hannah Furst:
Very true.

James Vivian:
So I think that alone is enough to not have to worry that that area of skin's getting the love that the rest of the skin's getting because it's just got this natural inbuilt photo protection. So a lot of men use beard oils for, more so, to improve the look of the hair.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, I discovered quite a while ago that my ex boyfriend had been using my products in the shower. I noticed him using an exfoliant and my cleanser and he was literally pouring it into his palm. And I was like, "What are you doing?". So for those out there that are sharing their products or not willingly sharing them, but witnessing their boyfriend, using their products or their partner, what amount of each product should they be advising them to use.

James Vivian:
You need to educate, you need to tell them what to use. And it's very, very hard to say what dosage of products is appropriate because every product needs its individual dosage. A lot of products are metered these days. It'll say, one to three pumps or whatever. I think with active skincare, less is always more. You can always add a little bit more if you need to, whereas taking it off the face is impossible and also expensive. Anyone can be heavy handed with their skincare when they don't know any better. And I think sometimes like with my partner, for example, he might use four times the amount of cleanser because he hasn't washed his face in a week. So he's thinking that he's making up for a little bit of lost time there.

Hannah Furst:
I'm surprised that you don't do his skincare for him every night. I imagined you in your bathroom, just like doing it for him.

James Vivian:
I know and I do feel bad because of course he would love that. But after a day of giving facials, it's the last thing that I really feel like doing and look, I'm like Ben, you come into the clinic whenever you want to have a treatment. So this is how it goes. He comes in for treatment, he's lying there.

Hannah Furst:
I should be dating a dermal therapist. Seriously,

James Vivian:
He lies there, I start squeezing his face and he's like, "What the hell are you doing? This is so painful. I can't believe that you actually have a clientele that let you do this to them. I'm never ever coming back. I'm never, ever coming back here.". And I'm like, "Well, I also never want you back here. So leave.". And then he's like, "I think I want a facial.". And I'm like,"Okay.", and then it all repeats itself.

Joanna Flemming:
So do you just put him under an LED and leave him there for half an hour?

James Vivian:
He loves the LED, that's a great way to shut him up. Ben, you're annoying me get under the LED.

Joanna Flemming:
I wonder what your favorite products are to recommend to men, whether you see them in clinic or it's what you're telling their partner to buy for them to form a basic skin care routine, what should they be using?

James Vivian:
Always start with the basics. So a cleanser, moisturizer and a sunblock, but when it comes to men, because they quite often like a really, really simplified routine, I will try to get the most out of those three steps as possible. So I'll try to do an exfoliating cleanser, like the CosMedix Purity Clean. Men really like that product, it's got that pepperminty smell to which they like in the shower. Then I will go for a two in one moisturizing SPF, two steps in one. And a lot of men don't use sunblock. So there're the signs of sun damage and a more weathered complexion is quite often what we see, but there's something a bit masculine about that too, which I don't hate but...

Joanna Flemming:
Which is really annoying because women, if we had sun damage, it'd be a bad thing because men have it, they look good with it.

James Vivian:
So, coming back to a routine. So yeah, a good two in one moisturizer come sunscreen, like the CosMedix Hydrate+ or like the Aspect Envirostat SPF 50. And then a really, really good night moisturizer or even just like a rich two in one alpha-hydroxy acid vitamin A, like the CosMedix Define or the Aspect Phytostat, which has got like lots of hydrating properties. It's just more than a simple moisturizer. So just trying to get the most out of those steps as possible, I think is a good start. And then if you can get a guy to do a bit more, well, that's fabulous too.

Hannah Furst:
And if you can't get him to do anything, what would you think the one, if he only used one product and he was like, not going to do anything else?

James Vivian:
The same as for anybody, it's sunscreen.

Hannah Furst:
Sunscreen. I knew you were going to say that, why did I even ask?

James Vivian:
Again, it's so boring, but I guess no one wants to look at a really dirty face, when you're lying in bed, talking about the day with your partner and you want a clean complexion staring back at you. Not one that's like really, really grubby. So I think a cleanser comes in a pretty close second.

Hannah Furst:
I'm just thinking in my head and getting shivers, like imagine wearing your sunscreen every day, putting it on in the morning, and then you don't wash it off.

Joanna Flemming:
That's what I was thinking.

Hannah Furst:
And it just starts to build up on the skin. Oh my God.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, that's what I was imagining.

Hannah Furst:
Last question, I guess you and your partner must share some skincare, but we've spoken about, I guess, using products that are targeted to your skin concerns. Are there any products that are totally fine to share?

James Vivian:
Well I think a cleanser. Ben and I, we share a cleanser. We also share undies, which a lot of people think is really, really weird.

Joanna Flemming:
That is so good.

Hannah Furst:
Oh my God, wait do you, you obviously, they just all go in the wash and then they all go into the same drawer. That's what I'm imagining.

James Vivian:
Correct. Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
I think that's totally understandable.

Joanna Flemming:
That's really cute, actually.

James Vivian:
A lot of people don't think it's understandable or cute.

Hannah Furst:
What do people say?

James Vivian:
It just makes total, they just think it's disgusting.

Hannah Furst:
No.

Joanna Flemming:
But they're clean.

James Vivian:
I know. And then it's like, how disgusting is your underwear? I've got no idea, but it just makes sense to us. And we both like have the same taste in undies. We both don't care about what our underwear looks like. We don't buy fancy underwear. We're not into that. So we just grab what's ever there. So when Ben and I first got together and he came over, he was in the shower and was like, "What's this?". And I said, "That's my face cleanser.". And he said, "What's a face cleanser?". I said, "That's what I wash my face with.". And he said, "I wash my face with the same soap I wash my bum with.".

James Vivian:
So I'm happy to report that I now have him using a face cleanser, which is so good.

Joanna Flemming:
That's a really good outcome. It's probably saved your relationship.

James Vivian:
But when it comes to like couples, same sex or heterosexual couples, it doesn't matter. People can share, I guess, but it's really important if people are targeting their specific concerns. But as you said Hannah before, when you had a gentlemen over and you were doing skincare for him, it's not all about how the products work on the skin. There is a ritualistic component to it. It's a bit therapeutic. It's really, really nice to stand at the basin, me and my partner, washing our face together or putting our serums on together. I always appreciate that moment. We have a little connection. He knows that I'm really passionate about it. And he's pretending like he does. And he starts saying things like, "Oh, like my hydration's improving. I can feel it.". And I'm really getting into my pigmentation's and I'm like, cute Ben but he doesn't know what he's talking about, but there's that element to it. So it really...

Hannah Furst:
I think I had a guy, he was like, "Oh, I want to see you again so you can do my skincare.". It was like, is that the only reason why.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, I think so.

Hannah Furst:
He said he woke up and his skin looked amazing. And I was like, "Yeah, no shit.".

James Vivian:
Well, when you got it, you got it, Hannah.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah I know. I should have been a dermal therapist. I would have maybe got a boyfriend.

James Vivian:
Oh stop. It's never too late. You will, let's get Hannah a boyfriend. If you've got anyone for Hannah, what's the email address, send a photo and your morning and evening skincare routine.

Joanna Flemming:
Yep. Send your submissions. It could be someone you know, it could be like your brother or your cousin or someone that's suitable for Hannah.

Hannah Furst:
Yes, please do.

Joanna Flemming:
Well, that probably wraps up our men's skincare chat, I think, we've probably covered everything and more.

James Vivian:
Maybe when it's about getting a partner into skin care, it's really about baby steps and starting with a cleanser and a sunscreen, get them to start to appreciate how their skin is looking and feeling. And then if they are getting on board, you can be like, well maybe it's now time for little antioxidant serum during the day and start using that.

James Vivian:
Because I think whether you're male or female or other, you've got to feel that motivation and that improvement in the skin to continue doing it. Otherwise, you fall off the wagon, you stop using either the skincare you've got or skincare generally. Because you're like, this stuff is nonsense. It doesn't work. It's when you start to see and feel the changes in the skin, that you're motivated to continue to use it.

Joanna Flemming:
So the moral of the story is don't go from zero to a hundred, start small and don't expect big things initially. But eventually you'll be able to get them onto something decent.

James Vivian:
Maybe consider a shared undie drawer.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes.

James Vivian:
It's the secret to a healthy, long relationship.

Hannah Furst:
Thank you so much, James.

James Vivian:
My pleasure. Thanks so much. I'll see you next time.

Joanna Flemming:
Thanks James.

Joanna Flemming:
So PWDKWN, I've seen a lot more people using that gif that we have on Instagram for the PWDKWN which I'm loving. Hannah, what is your product you didn't know you needed today?

Hannah Furst:
A brand that I definitely don't talk about enough is Aveda.

Joanna Flemming:
Okay.

Hannah Furst:
I just love their products and the way that they smell, I just...

Joanna Flemming:
I don't think I've ever heard you talk about Aveda.

Hannah Furst:
I have never spoken about it.

Joanna Flemming:
Where is this coming from?

Hannah Furst:
I know, I really, really love their products. I love the smell. Do you remember a while ago, I think I texted you and said my scalp was dirty but also I'd been wearing it in a pony, I think. And I literally got a migraine and I actually said to you, can we get a neurologist to come on and talk about it? And my scalp was throbbing. It was throbbing.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, you said it was sore.

Hannah Furst:
They've got micellar technology in them.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes. I know this range. There's a heat protectant and a micellar cleanser or something.

Hannah Furst:
I liked the heat relief. That's the Thermal Protector and Conditioning Mist. But I actually want to talk about the Rinseless Refresh today. So it is a no rinse, micellar technology. So it'll instant refresh the hair. And basically the thing that I love about it, is that it smells so good.

Joanna Flemming:
I have one of these and I haven't used it yet. Do I need to use this?

Hannah Furst:
Yes. Especially if you don't want to wash your hair.

Joanna Flemming:
Okay, I'm going to try this.

Hannah Furst:
What it actually does, is it soothes the scalp, on that night where I couldn't sleep because my scalp was so sore. I sprayed the shit out of my scalp and massaged it in. And then the pain started to subside or the irritation that I was feeling. Because I was having this...

Joanna Flemming:
I'm a little bit concerned about how painful that was if you couldn't sleep.

Hannah Furst:
That's why I said, we need to get a neurologist to come on and explain why high ponies give you a headache.

Joanna Flemming:
I didn't realize how serious it was.

Hannah Furst:
Oh, no, I couldn't sleep. But it was also because my hair had been in a high pony, so it was a combination of dirty scalp and that needing to be soothed but also the way that the hair direction was being pulled.

Hannah Furst:
But what I love about this one is it's got the pure fume aroma. So listen to these ingredients; jasmine, organic mandarin, lemon, is it Lang Lang? Is that how you say it?

Joanna Flemming:
Correct. Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
Lang Lang. And it's got other flower and plant essences. So it's got that real Aveda scent.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes. Okay. I'm imagining it in my head now, I've got my eyes closed, I'm imagining being in their store.

Hannah Furst:
I reckon if you've been out, not that you'll be out at a nightclub anytime soon but you know the smell of your hair after going out and being around smokers or whatever.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes, I can't stand that. Yep.

Hannah Furst:
This scent would be perfect for something like that. But yeah, I haven't spoken about Aveda enough and I love all their products. I have so many of their products.

Joanna Flemming:
Well, I'm going to go and grab that product out of my box of things to try. And I'm going to use that. I've got clean hair, but I'll use it in a couple of days.

Joanna Flemming:
I have to tell you something at the end of this because you always make jokes about how I have nothing wrong with me, but I've had like this concern that I meant to speak to you about, but I'm going to do my product you didn't know you needed.

Hannah Furst:
Okay. All right, keep me waiting.

Joanna Flemming:
It's the Estée Lauder, Pure Color Envy Nighttime Rescue Lip Oil Serum. So I have had this product in my box of things to try for quite a while. And I grabbed it out the other day because I had really dry lips and I was like, "I'm just going to try something else and see if that works.". I genuinely think this is one of the best lip glosses I've ever used. It makes your lips so pouty and glossy and it just looks really beautiful on.

Joanna Flemming:
It's got all these natural oils in it like camellia, rose and lavender. And I think it's got marine collagen as well, so that helps to plump them. I did find that it actually gave a plumping effect to my lips, but it didn't irritate them like some of those ones with peppermint and stuff in them, you know how they can make your lips feel a bit sore afterwards. It dries them out a bit more. But I found that this feels really weightless on the lips. It lasts awhile as well, a lot of glosses just slide off my lips, but this just feels amazing on. It makes them look really glossy and pouty and I just put lip liner on underneath it. And then I put that over the top and such a good combo.

Joanna Flemming:
But I'm surprised that I haven't discovered this. Did you have one of these as well? I'm sure you would have been given one too.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. I've got one. It's interesting how our tastes vary. Lip gloss and lip balm is so personal.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, it really is.

Hannah Furst:
So for me, it's a bit too thin. I know it's a serum oil.

Joanna Flemming:
It's an overnight treatment, but I'm using it as a daily lip gloss with liner.

Hannah Furst:
You must not like, because I like a really thick, so that you're so thick that your hair gets stuck to your face.

Joanna Flemming:
That's what I do at night. I put my Lano on really thick at night, but then I don't really like wearing that during the day.

Hannah Furst:
No, that's what I like during the day.

Joanna Flemming:
This is what I've been using during the day. Yeah. And it's got like a little applicator as well, so you just glide it on.

Joanna Flemming:
What I find annoying about Lano is that I have to use my fingers. And so during the day when I'm out and about, I like that it's got a little applicator that I can just apply straight to my mouth.

Hannah Furst:
You're very funny about...

Joanna Flemming:
About germs. Yes. I am.

Hannah Furst:
Which I think is serving you well right now.

Joanna Flemming:
It is, a hundred percent.

Hannah Furst:
I think that I've had to learn how to be less germy. And you've just naturally always been less germy.

Joanna Flemming:
I've had hand sanitizer with me at all times for my whole life. And everyone's just now starting to get on board.

Hannah Furst:
Because now I'm very conscious. I wash my, if I touch my face, if I do anything, wash your hands. I wasn't like that before. I was a grot.

Joanna Flemming:
I won't disagree with you.

Joanna Flemming:
So what I was going to tell you is that I washed my hair maybe last week and I got out of the shower and I brushed my hair and I went to dry it. And I noticed that I had all of this dandruff, really quite bad at the front of my part. So it was really obvious. And I was like, "Oh my God, what is this from?". I think it's just from the general change in seasons and my skin's a bit drier and I probably, I've been double shampooing. I don't know if I'm using a shampoo that's maybe too drying for my scalp. I'd just washed my hair. So I was like, I'm not going to wash it again. So then I had to go through a big detox the following time that I wash my hair. So I got my Christophe Robin scrub out and used that. And that helped a little bit, that helped definitely to shift the dandruff off my scalp, to pull it into my hair so that I could dry it out with a hairdryer.

Joanna Flemming:
You know when you angle the hair dryer down. And you're patting it out with your hands. Do you do that? But I wondered, should I try that Oribe Serene Scalp stuff? Because I've got to make quite a big investment to buy that. So you recommended that once and I'm just thinking, should I buy that in my next staff order?

Hannah Furst:
Oh, did you get sent the Klorane stuff?

Joanna Flemming:
Yes I did.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. So I think they've got one that I'm going to try. Is it the Klorane shampoo with aquatic mint?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, this one. So a deep cleansing detox shampoo made with mint. So it refreshes the scalp and hair. It looks really nice.

Joanna Flemming:
All right, maybe I'll use that before I invest in Oribe.

Hannah Furst:
It's $13.95.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, okay. Great. Bargain I was going to drop 150 bucks on Oribe.

Hannah Furst:
It's not going to look as nice in the shower, but I think that I was actually going to give that one a go to see if that helped my scalp but to be honest, which is really interesting, my sculp been a lot better. Because I've obviously had a lot less product buildup.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes. Yeah. I don't know why mine's just gone, it's gone really flaky and now I'm paranoid about it.

Hannah Furst:
It must be dry.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, I think it's just the weather and just this whole isolation thing, but yeah, I'm going to have to give that a whirl.

Joanna Flemming:
That wraps us up for another week and don't forget adorebeauty.com.au/podcast, if you want to find any of the products that we talked about today, they'll be there.

Hannah Furst:
Thanks everyone for joining us today.

Joanna Flemming:
Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends. It helps other people to discover us. And also we really want to know what you thought about this podcast. So if you can leave us a review, that would be much appreciated.