Episode 31: Professional VS Supermarket Haircare

We discuss how often to wash your bra + guest Natalie Anne is here to talk about the differences between salon-quality and supermarket haircare

Beauty IQ Uncensored Episode 31 Transcript - 'Professional VS Supermarket Haircare'

Joanna Flemming:
Welcome, everybody to Beauty IQ, the podcast. I'm your host, Joanna Flemming.

Hannah Furst:
And I am your co-host, Hannah Furst. Did you know, today, Jo, I'm going to be filming myself dying my hair?

Joanna Flemming:
I did know that and I am a little bit concerned, but as we've discussed, you've done a box dye job on yourself before.

Hannah Furst:
I have. I actually saw, which is really interesting. I think I'm doing it, this at the perfect time. So, the [inaudible 00:00:28] put their post-up last night, I think?

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
And it said people are panic buying hair dye, it's the new toilet paper. Which is so funny, so people must be actually buying hair dye from the supermarket and most of the shelves must be empty. This looks like it's in America. But, yeah, so I'm filming my box dye job and we actually [inaudible 00:00:51] we started stocking the L'Oreal Paris hair dyes.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, we've got you.

Hannah Furst:
Yes. So, we've got you and I'm even doing ... I actually had quite a few inbox messages on Instagram, saying that they were waiting for someone else to do it. So I've had some people message me saying, "Oh my God, thank you so much for doing this." That will be on YouTube, in the coming couple of weeks. So, definitely subscribe if you're interested to find out how to box dye your own hair at home.

Joanna Flemming:
Well, it makes total sense because imagine all the people who get their hair dyed every six weeks, to cover grays. It's been like six weeks of isolation now, hasn't it? How long has it been? I'm losing track of time.

Hannah Furst:
I've lost track of life.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, it really just doesn't feel like real life. I wake up every day thinking that this is made up and then it takes me like 30 seconds to realize what's going on.

Hannah Furst:
Well, I'm actually taking the opportunity to just, I've written down all my goals-

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, good.

Hannah Furst:
... and that goes to the journal. And so, I'm taking this time to actually achieve some goals, because I never really do that. I just do day to day. I just survive. Survive on like-

Joanna Flemming:
Survive on Mac and cheese and even [inaudible 00:02:01].

Hannah Furst:
Yes. What is on this episode, Joanna?

Joanna Flemming:
On today's episode, we are talking out in our cringy convo, how often people wash their bras. Because I had this conversation with my friends the other day. It's very specific, but that's what we were discussing. And then we have a special guest on to talk about the biggest difference between professional haircare and the stuff that you can buy from the supermarket.

Hannah Furst:
The one and only Natalie Anne.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes, super excited and of course, our PWD KWN. So, maybe to open this cringy convo, can I share with you, there's a Huffington post article called 17 hilarious tweets about the struggle with boob sweat. How good is the internet, by the way? I can't believe this is an article. So I'm going to read out a few of the funniest ones. It's so hot in LA today. I could water my whole garden with my boob sweat. Boob sweat must be a real thing.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. Well, for girls with big boobs, like bigger than you and I, you do get a lot of boob sweat like there's a lot of like overhang and cleavage and there's a lot of places for sweat to accumulate, so I'm not surprised.

Joanna Flemming:
Okay. You have not lived until you've walked down a busy street with visible boob sweat. I'm wondering if I've ever had visible boobs sweat?

Joanna Flemming:
I have from exercising.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. Probably in like a white tee shirt. Boob sweat is my perfume this evening, line forms to the left fillers. This is a cute one. I don't have pool, but I was swimming in boob sweat this afternoon, so I've got that going for me.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, it's the little things. So I was having this conversation with two of my friends the other day, the things that you talk about when you're in isolation, we've run out of other things to discuss. So we got onto the topic of washing your bras. I am guilty of not doing this enough and I actually looked up how often you're meant to wash your bra. And according to reader's digest because the bras touch your body, they should be getting washed every three to four wears. Are you washing your bras every three to four wears?

Hannah Furst:
I to be honest with you, this is one thing that I'm very good at-

Joanna Flemming:
Really?

Hannah Furst:
… it's washing undies. Washing undies, wearing pantyliners every day and washing my bras. I am like-

Joanna Flemming:
I was going to say, I wash my undies every wear.

Hannah Furst:
No, no, no. But I change my undies … I think I change my undies once a day as well and I wear panty liners and I wash my bras really frequently. The only thing that I'll say that I probably don't wash frequently enough is my sports bras.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, really see I'm the opposite. I wash my sports bras every use, like every time I wear a crop or a sports bra, it goes in the wash. But for some reason, an underwire bra can literally go like three months without being washed. I don't know why. I don't know why I don't put them in the wash. I just like take it off and I put it on like the towel rail and I just forget about it. I'm like, you don't need to be washed. You just don't count. I don't know why. Yeah. I think I'm probably better than you then-

Hannah Furst:
Yes. I'm sure.

Joanna Flemming:
… [inaudible 00:05:19] I thought you'd be the same as me. Do you know what, how many bras do you own though? That's probably the question. I have a lot of bras and I have the same bra.

Hannah Furst:
I rotate a few.

Joanna Flemming:
What's your fav?

Hannah Furst:
The one I'm wearing most at the moment is like a soft cup that I got from Cotton On Body. But the annoying thing is that when you're cold, you can see your nips through your top.

Joanna Flemming:
Not a bad thing if you're single. It's very Jennifer Anniston.

Hannah Furst:
It is very Jennifer Anniston in their 90s. The other one that I wear is just a tee shirt, but I like a nude one.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, is that the belly t-shirt bra?

Hannah Furst:
No, I think this one's from Tuban.

Joanna Flemming:
I have … God, you really don't splurge it on your bras.

Hannah Furst:
I don't splurge on my bras because something that-

Joanna Flemming:
You should splurge on bras? You should.

Hannah Furst:
I have pretty much no sexy bras. I have like one or two sexy bras. I actually bought this bra that has a sequence star over the nipple.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, when do you wear that?

Hannah Furst:
To festivals. I don't have anywhere-

Joanna Flemming:
What?

Hannah Furst:
Not on display, but I just wear it for fun to a festival.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, well.

Hannah Furst:
I can't say it, but actually I do think at one festival, my sister pulled my leg or like a friend pulled my top off and you could just see my stars on my bra. It wasn't rude, but to be honest in isolation, I only wear Lululemon crop tops.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes. I've just been like loving soft crop.

Hannah Furst:
I haven't put a bra on in weeks, but probably the last time I wore a bra was on that date, I went on just before we went into isolation.

Joanna Flemming:
Was it this star bra or you didn't whip that one out [inaudible 00:06:59]?

Hannah Furst:
No. I'm trying to remember … I probably put my only nice lacy bra on for that date. I didn't know it was going to be the last date I would have gone.

Joanna Flemming:
You would have gone differently if you'd known.

Hannah Furst:
Yes, totally. But I pretty much day to day to work, I wear the same belly t-shirt bra and I pretty much wash that after every second wear.

Joanna Flemming:
Really? that's very good Hannah. I did not expect that from someone that likes to sleep after exercising. I thought … I didn't think you'd be a second wear bra washer, that's really surprising news to me.

Hannah Furst:
And it's kind of like when you wash your sheets, like how often do you wash your sheets?

Joanna Flemming:
Probably fortnightly at the moment.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. I'm the same actually.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, but I do a weekly wash because I really like fresh linen, but I'm the only person sleeping in there. I think when you've got like a man in there they're much smellier and sweaty and so I think it needs to be weekly, but when it's just me-

Hannah Furst:
But then I don't think single men wash their sheets every week.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh hell no. Once a month. Once every two months probably.

Hannah Furst:
A guy actually admitted that to me.

Joanna Flemming:
Really?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah.

Joanna Flemming:
I never would have slept over at his house.

Hannah Furst:
No, I don't think I did.

Joanna Flemming:
Now when it comes to washing your bras, I think a good point to make is cost per wear. If you're wearing it every day, you should be spending like a hundred bucks on bra.

Hannah Furst:
You should be.

Joanna Flemming:
Another tip for bras and we get these a lot on our stories. People tagging us on stories, that calico bags that we do for our goody bags, the ones that have the little like quotes on them, they make good laundry bags, for throwing like delicate things into like bras or stockings and things like that into the wash. Like your mom probably has those meshy ones, but if you don't have those and you've got something delicate to put in the wash, you could use that calico bag.

Hannah Furst:
And so, what is the issue with not washing your bras frequently enough?

Joanna Flemming:
So, if you according to reader's digest again, if you don't wash it every three to four wears, it can start to accumulate dirt, oil, bacteria, sweat, all of the things that you would expect it to.

Hannah Furst:
So I think I need to get into some better habits. Not that I'm really wearing my bras frequently at the moment and I am washing like my crops and sports bras every day and I always wash them after every wear. But I think I'm going to have to get better with the underwire-

Joanna Flemming:
It would totally make sense that your boobs sweat would cause bacteria-

Hannah Furst:
And it's near underarms as well. So if you're a sweaty person-

Joanna Flemming:
I forget where like the bacteria can actually grow in areas that you're not washing. Like I do. That's not the good one who's washing their boobs.

Hannah Furst:
Well, what we discovered was that we didn't wash our feet.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes.

Hannah Furst:
And that's something that a lot of people have messaged me about and even my mom was like, I listened to your episode. Why don't you wash your feet? They get wet in the shower like I don't soak them up.

Joanna Flemming:
I think I've only done it when I've removed tan.

Hannah Furst:
Yes. I probably haven't even done a tan.

Joanna Flemming:
Do you put like a body wash or something on your feet when you scrub your tan off?

Hannah Furst:
No. I use a coffee scrub before tanning.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, well I guess that counts as washing them and we probably exfoliate that's hands off once a week, usually don't we?

Hannah Furst:
Nah, nah. I had an accumulation. I've recently had an accumulation of tan and I looked in the mirror and I looked like I had a rash on my neck and all around my hairline.

Joanna Flemming:
Really?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. I'm really lazy-

Joanna Flemming:
Wait, so you don't scrub your tan off each time that you reapply?

Hannah Furst:
No, I just wait for it-

Joanna Flemming:
You just put it over the top?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah.

Joanna Flemming:
Wow. Okay. I'm surprised your tan looks, but it looks good all the time.

Hannah Furst:
But what I do is I just do a gradual tan. If I'm like, like today I've got to do something on camera today. So I just do gradual tan and then I do my face tan, but because I'm using face exfoliator, like all the time, my face tan always looks good. And then if my body starts to look weird and patchy I'll then do a coffee scrub in the shower.

Joanna Flemming:
Okay. I exfoliate before every tan application. Otherwise mine just goes really patchy.

Hannah Furst:
That doesn't surprise me, Joe. Doesn't surprise me.

Joanna Flemming:
So we want to know how often you guys wash your bras. So DM us if you're not a frequent bra washer, I'm going to try and get better. But that's my admission for today is I don't wash my bras regularly now. Welcome to our next guest, Natalie Ann is a hairstylist hairdresser. Award-winning hairdresser, I should say with 526K on Instagram. Nat, hello and welcome.

Natalie Ann:
Hey guys, I'm miss adore beauty and I miss Melvin.

Joanna Flemming:
I know it's nice to chat to you. It's been a while, although I do stalk you a fair bit on Instagram because I love your videos.

Natalie Ann:
Me too guilty of that same. I feel like I am, I talk to you and see you guys quite regularly.

Joanna Flemming:
Now, how does someone amass such a huge following just from posting hair videos?

Natalie Ann:
It's like anything you guys have basically built this incredible community of women that follow you and trust you and I think it's all got to do with being super authentic and me not being afraid or apologetic to share what I really think and feel.

Joanna Flemming:
I would agree with that definitely and I think you in your videos show how easy it can be to do hair and that it's not necessarily intimidating. Anyone can use a tool if they've got the right education, I guess.

Natalie Ann:
100% and I think we're definitely going to see a lot more of me during this isolation period.

Joanna Flemming:
Now a question that we get all the time, because we range a lot of salon hair care brands at a door and a question that we get regularly is what is the biggest difference between salon or professional haircare and the stuff that you can buy from the supermarket? Is it worth the price that you're paying for the professional staff?

Natalie Ann:
Look, I think it's always going to be up to the individual, what they choose to invest in. First and foremost, what they can afford, but aesthetically you're paying for packaging, you're paying for amazing signature and custom fragrances.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, yes that's true.

Natalie Ann:
But professional shampoos and supermarket shampoos both cleanse the scalp. But how they cleanse the scalp is the difference. Most supermarket shampoos strip the natural oils back with sulfate, not to mention that they are filled with water and sulfate basically to just cleanse your hair. Whereas professional shampoos have vitamins and minerals and better ingredients and the concentration of those ingredients are far larger than supermarket shampoos. So you're definitely paying for that.

Joanna Flemming:
Absolutely.

Natalie Ann:
For me, that's value. I don't know if you've guys have ever been in a hotel and you've had to use bad shampoo and you find that you have to use the whole tester on like one shampoo in opposed to using your pro shampoos and you literally use an almond size amount. So, it is about concentration and quality.

Joanna Flemming:
What are sulfates and what do they, what they actually do?

Natalie Ann:
They're harsh sort of salts that cleanse the scalp and they can remove all of the natural oil as well as the impurities.

Hannah Furst:
So on ingredients, just to expand further on that, what kind of ingredients should different hair types avoiding their haircare? Can some hair types tolerate different ingredients better than others?

Natalie Ann:
Yeah. Look, I think anyone who's had chemical services, anybody who has colored their hair, they're the ones that should definitely avoid sulfates.

Hannah Furst:
So people with chemically treated hair might want to avoid them more than say, if you had virgin hair without too many concerns?

Natalie Ann:
And silicon's is another one you want to avoid non waterborne, non-water soluble silicon's, supermarket shampoos have the types of silicon's in there that build up in the hair and cause like temporary illusion of shine. But when you go to strip that back during a color service, it tends to add a barrier for your hairdresser in order to be able to lift that out. That's where your hair starts to heat up and that's where we get a little bit of complications happen.

Hannah Furst:
I remember when Joe, when I got my hair dyed blonde, that was like a real sticking point. What shampoo had I been using? Because it was going to be more difficult to lift the color. Well, that makes more sense then.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah. That's super interesting.

Hannah Furst:
I'm currently using a color protection shampoo and mask on my hair because I've got much lighter ends at the moment and I'm trying to maintain that. Do color protection products actually work?

Natalie Ann:
100%. You will find most color protection products will have vitamin like vitamin B profile. You'll see a lot of that in like supermarket shampoos. You'll see a lot more like conditioning type agents in the professional shampoos and we really want to lock that cuticle down when your hair is colored to make sure that your color doesn't fade. So we want to shut that cuticle down. So usually they do that with hydration, but also we're seeing a lot more bond building type products now. So like the older plexes of the world and all the types of plexes that have come out and it starts in the salon with what we apply our oil treatments into our color in order to make sure that we are looking after the hair while we're coloring. But then also making sure that you take that home with you to top it up as you go.

Hannah Furst:
Yes. So do you find that the clients that take home professional haircare to maintain their hair at home, do you find they're coming back for services and their hair is in better condition?

Natalie Ann:
100%. Most 90% of my clients use professional haircare and the 10% that don't probably buy from a door to be honest because we don't stock all the stuff that they would want to try. So, and you guys are the ones that we do refer to if they do want like an orbay or a crystal [inaudible 00:17:25] or whoever it may be that we don't stock.

Hannah Furst:
Well, I feel like in the last five years, people have only just started to realize that you can't walk into a skin clinic and get a facial and then expect the results of that facial to last you six months between your next facial that you have. And it's the same concept, I guess when it comes to haircare, you can't expect the results of that treatment that you have to last six months until your next color or six weeks even.

Natalie Ann:
That kind of brings up that massive debate. The problem with haircare and I've always said it, girls will invest more in their skin, in their makeup than they will their hair. And I'm sure you guys have one or two or three brushes, hairbrushes, but you might have 50 makeup brushes. It's very interesting to me how much more women are willing to sort of spend on their skin and their face than they are on their hair. But I put that down to the fact that you don't see results straight away with haircare.

Hannah Furst:
It's an ongoing thing.

Natalie Ann:
It is that constant maintenance and what do I do for oily hair types? What do I do if I want more shine and I want this. And I think a lot of girls have been, I guess, disappointed over the years, especially curly girls because their vanity cupboards are filled with shit. Can I say shit? They constantly like being sold things that they don't necessarily need.

Hannah Furst:
As a curly frizzy girl you lose faith in the products.

Natalie Ann:
100% and you lose faith in, I guess in the beauty industry sometimes because you're kind of like, why is it not a product that's been developed for me? Do you know what I mean? Like, what is it? And I think you both are extremely educated. So the fact that you can still say that imagine how like a normal girl feels, if she hasn't had a thorough consultation with a hairdresser.

Hannah Furst:
To be honest, I think a lot of people buy, Olaplex not knowing what it's actually doing to their hair.

Joanna Flemming:
So true. So my sister's like, I don't know what this is doing, but I'm just going to use it.

Natalie Ann:
And then I think that's the brilliant part about marketing as well. And I think hair goes in cycles and trends like anything else it's like, there's a fad and everyone wants to talk about the plexes and the plexes and the plexes. And then all of a sudden, like they just stop using it because they realize that they probably don't need to because they haven't colored their hair in six months. Do you know what I mean?

Hannah Furst:
In terms of like salon treatments for frizzy hair, are there any that you do recommend? Because I'm actually trying to do some research for myself. Because I'm like, when I isolation's over-

Natalie Ann:
Self box fizzy hair?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. When isolation's over, I'm going to go get some professional treatment to try to manage the freeze.

Natalie Ann:
Okay. So let me just unpack that. Do you want this treatment to be permanently cosmetic?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, I think, so. I think so, because it's honestly at the end of the day, if it can cut down your styling time and the amount of heat tools that I'm using, I feel like it might be worth it.

Natalie Ann:
I agree. And I've always, that's usually how I would consult my clients. If they're running to the iron every single day to maintain their suits straight here let's look at a longer lasting chemical service. I'm not a fan of keratin services in particularly-

Hannah Furst:
Oh you're not.

Natalie Ann:
… but there are new versions now. There's new versions of keratins or smoothing treatments. Like we use a product called AG1 which is not commercial-

Hannah Furst:
Okay.

Natalie Ann:
… it hasn't had much marketing, but it's a shampoo application. It doesn't have any of the nasty chemicals that have been banned, like formaldehyde, because that's an embalming agent that has been proven to be a carcinogenic. So it's something that has been banned in Australia. But when they removed the formaldehyde from those smoothing treatments, they no longer were very smooth.

Female:
Yes.

Natalie Ann:
So they had to find other active ingredients that would replace them. And I'm finding that AG1 is giving my clients the best results.

Hannah Furst:
I'm thinking this is a beauty [inaudible 00:21:33] take a video Joanna for YouTube.

Natalie Ann:
100%.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, you should try it. Well, Hannah did have a keratin smoothing treatment in Brazil and got a mullet from it.

Hannah Furst:
No, it was actually, it wasn't keratin. And it was actually, I was in this small town in Brazil. This is a very long time ago. And I went to this hairdresser and said, "Can you just chemically straighten it?" The really hardcore straightening treatment.

Natalie Ann:
Yeah, like back in the day.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, back in the day. This was what 12 years ago? And my hair all fell out and I had a reverse mullet. Look, I wouldn't-

Joanna Flemming:
Then she went back and did it again somewhere else.

Hannah Furst:
Then I did it in Thailand a year later and my hair fell out again.

Natalie Ann:
So, you did it again?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. You know what, when you're traveling in humidity for months on end-

Natalie Ann:
When your [inaudible 00:22:24], I get it. I'm a curly frizzy girl. I understand. I'm Lebanese. I understand.

Hannah Furst:
So, I think the reason for that is because you're overseas. I've been overseas for a couple of months and I'm just at the end of my tether. And I'm feeling really unattractive and I'm just like, "I want this over."

Natalie Ann:
So everybody after COVID.

Hannah Furst:
Yes, exactly. That's how I'm feeling. I want to try the curly girl method, which I keep hearing about. Can you tell us a bit more about it?

Natalie Ann:
You really want to try it?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. I was thinking of doing that before I go through the straightening treatment [crosstalk 00:23:00] relaxing.

Natalie Ann:
So the curly girl method, traditionally, it's not a diet. I like to pitch it that way. It's not like a fad diet. It's not a detox. It's a way of life. It's a commitment process to yourself, to your hair and to going back to your natural inactive state basically. So when people want to try it, I guess they'll never say the true results of the methodology until they're living that lifestyle. If that makes sense. So, you have to avoid shampoo.

Hannah Furst:
Oh, what?

Natalie Ann:
Combs and brushes.

Hannah Furst:
Oh my God. Okay.

Natalie Ann:
Sulfates. Non-water soluble silicons and alcohol.

Hannah Furst:
Oh.

Natalie Ann:
Not the consumption of alcohol [crosstalk 00:23:53]-

Hannah Furst:
I was like-

Natalie Ann:
… the topical outcome.

Hannah Furst:
That is really a way of life.

Natalie Ann:
Yeah. I'm not joking. I think being vegan for a curly girl would be easier.

Hannah Furst:
Oh my God. Wow. Because yeah, I think curly girl's like you want to use your hate tools.

Natalie Ann:
You know what and this is the one thing that I would say to most girls, you just got to do it the right way. You know? So if you're using all the right heat protectant, if you are only disciplining the curls after you diffuse or after you let it dry naturally. If you're only disciplining the random curls that are super straight, then go for it because the rest of your hair is going to get super healthy and be more encouraged to be shiny and bouncy and recoil. Especially the girls that are growing out a chemical straightener, I actually teach them to hate style where the straighter is and leave their natural alone.

Joanna Flemming:
And for difficult hair types say you've got a really oily scalp. I find that we get a lot of questions at [Adobidi 00:24:59] about these. People with really oily scalps and dry ends. What haircare routine do you recommend for a hair type like that?

Natalie Ann:
I know this is going to sound counterintuitive, but oily roots are usually caused … if it's not genetic and you haven't had them since you were a child, I'm going to say that they're actually caused from dehydration.

Joanna Flemming:
Right. Okay.

Natalie Ann:
When your roots are oily, it's because your roots are telling … your body tells you that you need hydration. Like, "I'm going to run to the surface. I'm going to try and rescue your hair with all of this beautiful natural oil." And you'll see a lot of that after a chemical service. So after keritin, if you overheat style your hair.

Natalie Ann:
So if you're straightening your hair all the time, you'll find that your hair will be more oily-

Joanna Flemming:
Okay.

Natalie Ann:
… than if you were to blow dry your hair, for example. And it's because you're applying more heat and then it tells your body to then send more oil to the rescue.

Joanna Flemming:
Interesting. Well, it's the same concept-

Natalie Ann:
Does that make sense?

Joanna Flemming:
… for skin actually. I mean the scalp is an [crosstalk 00:26:08] extension of your skin on your face. So-

Natalie Ann:
Yeah. So the first thing that I would say is try and avoid heat styling, number one. Number two, try and extend your period of shampooing time. So if you're normally shampooing every day, I would try and go every second day-

Joanna Flemming:
Okay.

Natalie Ann:
… just to start building that momentum because then your body will get into that routine like, "Oh, I'm not going to get washed today. So I'm not going to be as greasy." And then slowly but surely you might be able to extend it out those three days. You also want to avoid heavy hydration type products, anything that has oil in it. On your actual scalp, you want to make sure that you are washing your shampoo out completely before applying your conditioner.

Joanna Flemming:
Yeah, a lot of people aren't [crosstalk 00:26:56] wash their shampoo out properly.

Natalie Ann:
And dry shampoo. I think dry shampoo is every oily goes savior. It's the one that gets them through that second, third day.

Joanna Flemming:
Do you recommend double shampooing? Because I have spoken to a number of hairdressers and hairstyles who either don't or they do. I'm currently doing a bit of a double shampoo at [crosstalk 00:27:20] the moment, but I don't know if I should be.

Natalie Ann:
Okay. So for someone like me, I shampoo three times.

Joanna Flemming:
[inaudible 00:27:25] Same. Oh my God, I didn't want to say that in case I was so wrong.

Natalie Ann:
No, you're not wrong.

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, I did great.

Natalie Ann:
And if you go to the hairdresser and they give you one shampoo, you're going to feel like you have been duped-

Joanna Flemming:
Oh, yes. Totally.

Natalie Ann:
… or ripped off. And we definitely didn't do our job properly because half the time we've just taken off the layer of makeup you've got around your front hair line.

Female:
Yes.

Natalie Ann:
And even with my oily girls, the one thing that I always recommend to them is to dry shampoo. So not dry shampoo in a can, not wet their hair, prior to applying the product.

Joanna Flemming:
Really?

Natalie Ann:
It's a Japanese ritual that works really well for oily hair, psoriasis.

Joanna Flemming:
Wow. With a particular shampoo or just any shampoo?

Natalie Ann:
When I say clarifying shampoo, I still mean clarifying without sulfates.

Joanna Flemming:
Yes, okay.

Natalie Ann:
So something like O&M clarifying shampoo. There's lots of extension shampoos on the market that oil free and paraben free and sulfate free. Anything with peppermint in it, to be honest really gives you a good thorough cleanse. Anything with charcoal in it will give you a really good thorough cleanse. So you're looking for peppermints, spearmint or Charcoal. And literally before you jump in the shower, you're going to apply that into hot cross buns sections. And really just take your time, love your scalp, give yourself a good scrub. And that's going to stimulate the removal of all of that grime.

Joanna Flemming:
Wow. That is so interesting. I've never heard that concept before ever.

Hannah Furst:
Okay. So you've, I'm styling my hair for an event, I blow dry it, straighten it and then I'll sometimes add in a curling one to add curls. Will hate protectant actually protect my hair from that much heat?

Natalie Ann:
So hold on. You're blow drying. You're straightening then you're curling.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. Yeah.

Natalie Ann:
Didn't we have this conversation last time I was there.

Hannah Furst:
No, you showed me how to blow dry my hair. It's all right. You showed me how to straighten my hair properly, which by the way, game changer.

Natalie Ann:
Game changer, right. But hold up. So why are we still blow drying, straightening then curling.

Hannah Furst:
Oh, because there's no way that I could blow my hair straight enough to then add curves to it. I still need-

Natalie Ann:
Okay. So you're curling with a wand.

Hannah Furst:
Yep a wand.

Natalie Ann:
Right. So I think if I'm going to take off my hairdresser hat, I'm going to say any heat protectant is going to better than-

Hannah Furst:
Better than no [crosstalk 00:29:59] heat.

Natalie Ann:
… protectant.

Hannah Furst:
Can heat protectant really do that much?

Natalie Ann:
It can. It definitely can-

Hannah Furst:
That's good to know.

Natalie Ann:
… Yeah, it can. But it's only going to protect you from 185 plus.

Hannah Furst:
Okay.

Natalie Ann:
Like 190 degrees. Most say 220, but there's been scientific studies by GHD and their scientists say that the optimal temperature for styling is 185 degrees.

Joanna Flemming:
And imagine how hot your hair is heating up to.

Natalie Ann:
Yeah, she's going in with a dryer at 220. Then she's going back in with maybe GHD at 185. Then she's like, "You know what, I'm seriously don't have time. And I've got to get to my podcast. I'm going to ramp it up to 220 and then curl it."

Hannah Furst:
You wonder why my hair is the way that it is. [crosstalk 00:30:48] we don't want that at all.

Natalie Ann:
No protectant is going to save you from that [crosstalk 00:30:52]-

Hannah Furst:
I always forget. And by the way, I always forget the heat protectant, so. Okay.

Natalie Ann:
You know what, it's just going to be something that is habitual. Like you've got to build it into your routine. I used to forget [inaudible 00:31:05].

Female:
Yeah. [crosstalk 00:31:07].

Natalie Ann:
And I used to use Napoleon autopilot back in the day and it was something that I would always forget to use, because it was just not natural. And it's not until you get into that routine and that swing of things. Set an alarm on your phone.

Hannah Furst:
I just have a ritual of when I dry my hair before I dry it, I put in pureology color fanatic, and that's like a multi-use product, but it's also a heat protector.

Natalie Ann:
And that's by L'Oreal, right?

Hannah Furst:
Yes. Pureology. Yes.

Natalie Ann:
Yes. Nice.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. So I just do that before I dry it and that's just become a habit of mine. Because I used to forget constantly. And I found that when I was putting it into dry hair, if it was like a wet product and it was before I was going to be straightening or curling my hair, it would just sit in my hair wet. So now I put it in before I dry it. And I'm like, "Yup. That's so."

Natalie Ann:
I do both because it's one of those things like the curly girl method preaches, an excess amount of product, like more product than what we would, but on drenching here. So for me, you're going to lose half that product down the drain. Right? Or like wringing it out. So I like to go in wet and then I will go again. I would directional dry my hair. So not blast dry it like a crazy person. I literally dry it with no [crosstalk 00:32:22]. And then I will go in and I will spray two to three centimeter sections with the heat protectant again.

Hannah Furst:
Okay. Right. So you're really going here with it.

Natalie Ann:
Well, it's thorough. Otherwise you're just missing spots and your hair super porous in certain areas. And it's not in other areas, but I think we should do a live. I'm going to teach you how to do it.

Hannah Furst:
Well, let's scheduling in a live with Nat so that we can learn how to do our hair.

Natalie Ann:
It's going to be so much fun.

Hannah Furst:
I look forward to it. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Your-

Natalie Ann:
You're so welcome.

Hannah Furst:
… little tips and tricks have been game changing for me. Lots of little things that I've learned today.

Joanna Flemming:
And for me.

Natalie Ann:
I thoroughly enjoyed talking to you guys. I listened to the podcast all the time. I think one of my favorite ones was about the gut health. [crosstalk 00:33:13].

Female:
Oh yeah.

Natalie Ann:
That was so good. So, I hope that your listeners found this equally as I guess informative.

Hannah Furst:
I'm sure they would have-

Joanna Flemming:
Yes.

Hannah Furst:
… and now you can go and listen to yourself back on the podcast.

Joanna Flemming:
How fun. Thanks Nat

Natalie Ann:
Bye girls. Thank you.

Hannah Furst:
Okay. So product, we didn't know we needed. By the way, I'd really like to see more people using that gift that we have on Instagram of the PWD KWN. If you buy a PWD KWN that we have mentioned and you post it [crosstalk 00:33:52] -

Joanna Flemming:
And tag us. Yes.

Hannah Furst:
And tag us. We want to see what you're buying.

Joanna Flemming:
Quite a few people are doing Milky Foot at the moment and we don't even stock like we thought.

Hannah Furst:
Yes. I think people were confused.

Joanna Flemming:
I feel that people think that like Milky Foot sponsored that or something.

Hannah Furst:
No, they didn't.

Joanna Flemming:
They absolutely did not. like [crosstalk 00:34:08]-

Hannah Furst:
They just sent it to us after listening to the podiatrist episode. And we were like, Oh, we'll give it a go. So what is your product today?

Joanna Flemming:
So my product is something that I'm using currently because I'm trying to make the transition back to natural deodorant, which I've already done at some point. And then I went back to normal deodorant and now I'm trying to go back. Which is a hard thing to do because there's this transition period when you switched to natural deodorant, which you are doing as well on her at the moment.

Hannah Furst:
Oh, my God. I'm on and off.

Joanna Flemming:
And it's about four to six weeks where you notice that you smell a lot more than you're used to. Probably mainly because you're used to wearing an antiperspirant deodorant that prevents you from sweating or producing an odor. And then you've gone to using something that is just designed to deodorize smell. And it's just that four to six weeks is very hard to push through. And I think that's why a lot of people go natural deodorant's not for me because they don't realize that there's this four to six-week period that you have to push through. And once you're through that, honestly like natural deodorant is great. And I found it did its job and it kept me smelling fine.

Joanna Flemming:
So the product that I am using at the moment is the LaVilla the healthy underarm detox mask. This is basically a charcoal mask that you are meant to put under your arms. So this really helps when you're going through this transition period of switching over to a natural deodorant. But I can also just be used like a nice thing to do every week in your self-care routine. So it's got active charcoal in it to exfoliate and purify under the arms. And then it's got malic acid, which is a really gentle IHA. So that helps to exfoliate the skin under the arm, which as we've discussed before Hannah, that's something that we try to do to reduce smell under our arms anyway.

Joanna Flemming:
So I previously was using a Apple cider vinegar. So very similar like malic acid is derived from green apples. And then silica helps to nourish the skin under the arms as not fully drying out your underarm, but it's just neutralizing everything so that it reduces the smell. So I would apply this in the morning before I have a shower, have a shower, wash it off and then do my natural deodorant. So I think that you should buy these because you keep saying how much you stink. And I think that these would make you feel a lot better.